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Pay Attention Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:21 pm |
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America in trouble wrote: BE ADVISED AND BE FOREWARNED! When Barack Obama was being questioned on health care insurance a question was asked, "But what about the people than can't afford to pay for the Government's health care policy?"
Obama's reply was, "There will be exceptions to who must pay." I have no doubt that the poor won't pay anything and anybody else will have to pick up their cost of health insurance coverage.
It's a little something that fits perfectly into "reparations" Obama said he does not favor. That may be what this has all been about from the start for Obama.
Of course it is, this is all part of his plan to "SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUD"!!!
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America in trouble Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:15 pm |
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BE ADVISED AND BE FOREWARNED! When Barack Obama was being questioned on health care insurance a question was asked, "But what about the people than can't afford to pay for the Government's health care policy?"
Obama's reply was, "There will be exceptions to who must pay." I have no doubt that the poor won't pay anything and anybody else will have to pick up their cost of health insurance coverage.
It's a little something that fits perfectly into "reparations" Obama said he does not favor. That may be what this has all been about from the start for Obama.
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Playing the Game Member

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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 04:35 pm |
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Let us remember that the AARP was initially founded as an organization of and fro retired teachers. It is pro union, Democrat and government involvement. It no longer stands for American Association for Retired People. They removed that from their charter a couple of years ago. They are not representative of older Americans, they represent their own interests.
dover-diva wrote:
AARP, AMA and all the other SIERRA clubs and save the smelt, etc. are better defined as self serving, and blind, and not concerned of the ramifications of their actions.
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charles Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:47 pm |
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| With the continuing call for federal involvement in our health care system, maybe it's time to review the basics - that goverments have a tendency towards corruption, and a greater tendency towards mismanagement. A review of world history may show some goverments which haven't had these problems, but the lack of examples proves the point, the way lighting a candle in a large, dark room emphasizes the darkness. Limits on government power are the only way anyone has yet found to limit the damage from these tendencies. Those limits prohibit our federal government from becoming involved with health care (10th Amendment). And if you respond with "common good," you also have to explain how the 10th Amendment fits into the picture - all goverment functions, down to county dog-catcher, exist to serve the "common good."
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:55 pm |
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This is a C&P from the site that Lav. posted.
"Astroturf describes fake grassroots groups that are created and funded by corporations, political parties or industry trade associations to advance a political agenda.
Astroturf groups fighting media reform manufacture the impression of public opposition to issues like Net
Neutrality to sway policy makers and the media. What these groups won't tell you is that they're bought and paid for by the phone and cable industry."
I stand my my comment.
Just opened your site from below and now understand what you were saying presented in a different way. However, all the normal public remembers is nasty nancy calling "grass-roots" demonstrators as "astroturf".
AARP, AMA and all the other SIERRA clubs and save the smelt, etc. are better defined as self serving, and blind, and not concerned of the ramifications of their actions.
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:25 pm by dover-diva
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ltcdolphin Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 12:35 pm |
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Lavitakus wrote: Hartlyboy wrote: I suppose I should know the answer but I'll set myself up anyway and ask; "What's an astroturfer?"
http://consumerist.com/5350253/how-to-identify-astroturfers-and-front-groups
interesting that when you look at the site you get this is the first couple of posts.
Snowblind wrote:
They forgot the first rule:
Find out if George Soros is a funder.
11:15 AM on Tue Sep 1 2009
There seems to be a lot of astroturfing going on, especially with the whole healthcare mess. However, it seems that most of it is coming from the pro side and isn't being seen as astroturf.
tereckkincaid 11:22 AM on Tue Sep 1 2009
Well, I got accused of being an astro-turfer simply because I thought the anti-BST crowd was full of crap. So don't be so jumpy just because someone has a well thought out opinion you don't agree with
TKOtheKDR 11:23 AM on Tue Sep 1 2009
First of all Al Swearengen 11:27 AM on Tue Sep 1 2009
Rachel Maddow has done a good job on her show of showing how the people backing the anti-health care reform people are backed by pharmaceutical companies.
, politics have no business on a consumer advocacy website.
mannyv 11:40 AM on Tue Sep 1 2009
So...opinions funded by corporations aren't as good as opinions that are formed through media brainwashing?
When the unions mobilize their members to support their candidates, that's political activism.
When businesses mobilize pay people to voice opinions, that's astroturfing.
Of course! Because those union members are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, and aren't getting compensated. Oh wait.
Secondly, "The Center for Media and Democracy" is ridiculously left-leaning, and I trust them about as far as I could throw a Honda.
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Lavitakus Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:41 am |
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Hartlyboy wrote: I suppose I should know the answer but I'll set myself up anyway and ask; "What's an astroturfer?"
http://consumerist.com/5350253/how-to-identify-astroturfers-and-front-groups
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Hartlyboy Member

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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 05:09 am |
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| I suppose I should know the answer but I'll set myself up anyway and ask; "What's an astroturfer?"
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Lavitakus Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 04:47 am |
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dover-diva wrote: Lavitakus wrote: Now, now. That's not what I said. Just commenting on the quote by the op in regard to bad press.
Here - http://www.freepress.net/astroturf
Lav I looked at your sites and still haven't a clue why an educated person would call people who are against this atrocity and takeover and push for fascism and on and on would call anyone against it a fool.
NOT a fair statement. Personally I am NOT an astro-turfer, (as YOU well know), and yet you put out this B/S to do what??? Irritate and denigrate?? Not fair.
You DID vote for bummie- didn't you??
That wasn't an assumption towards you personally. In fact it was in response to the op's take on what defines bad press.
Bad press is good business, in other words. Don't be shallow. If I wanted to irritate, I would have disected the points and statistics in regard to the politics played by the list of offenders linked towards in my previous post.
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Lavitakus Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 04:36 am |
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ltcdolphin wrote: Lavitakus wrote: tspong wrote: I think the Public Option Plan has gotten some "bad press" partially because the name somewhat implies that it is either controlled by the government or it sounds like public assistance.
Actually, the only "bad press" that people are hearing is from the astroturfers.
oh but lav you did say what diva asked you. why do you run from it after you wrote it??
What the heck are you talking about??? You're not even on the same brainwave.
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:29 am |
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Lavitakus wrote: Now, now. That's not what I said. Just commenting on the quote by the op in regard to bad press.
Here - http://www.freepress.net/astroturf
Lav I looked at your sites and still haven't a clue why an educated person would call people who are against this atrocity and takeover and push for fascism and on and on would call anyone against it a fool.
NOT a fair statement. Personally I am NOT an astro-turfer, (as YOU well know), and yet you put out this B/S to do what??? Irritate and denigrate?? Not fair.
You DID vote for bummie- didn't you??
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Hartlyboy Member

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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:20 am |
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Trying to sort out the myths from the realities of the House bill [Hr 3962] being rammed through by Pelosi does give you some pause. As the Joint Committee on Taxation understands it, under that bill all citizens are required to maintain 'adequate health insurance'. They estimated by 2016 that would cost about 15K a year. If you were a scofflaw and didn't have that insurance, you'd have to pay a tax of about 2.5% of income. If you didn't pay that tax, you could be fined up to $250K and put in jail for 5 years. What in the H are they thinking? This is healthcare reform? Or just government control?
The Senate version had a similar provision but they dropped it after realizing how awful that came across. Sweet Nancy and her cohorts refused to do that.
The more you look at this thing the less you see about actually doing anything to improve healthcare versus just forcing people into a program to say 'they' did something. When it gets in , they will spin the benfits with as much imagination as they create stimulus job numbers....
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ltcdolphin Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:17 am |
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here's hoping it's dead
Poll: Huge majority doesn't want Democrats' health care bill
By: Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent
11/06/09 3:41 PM EST
With House Democrats racing to pass their 2,000-plus page health care reform bill this weekend, a new CNN/Opinion Research poll shows that an overwhelming majority of those surveyed -- 72 percent -- want Congress either to make major changes, start over from scratch, or simply stop working on health care legislation. Just 26 percent want Congress to pass the current health care proposal as is, or with minor changes.
This was the question asked by the CNN/Opinion Research pollsters:
[size=As you may know, several health care bills have been passed by committees in the U.S. House and Senate and they can be brought before Congress for debate and a final vote at any time. Which of the following do you think Congress should do:]
[size=** Continue working on those bills this fall and make relatively minor changes
before passing final legislation.]
[size=** Continue working on those bills this fall but pass final legislation only if major changes are made.]
[size=** Start work on entirely new bills that would not be ready until some time next year.]
[size=** Stop working on any bills that would change the country's health care system.]
The results: 26 percent want the bills passed with relatively minor changes; 33 percent want the bills passed but only with major changes; 24 percent want Congress to start work on entirely new bills; and 15 percent want Congress to stop work altogether. Just one percent have no opinion.
That means 72 percent of those surveyed either want Congress to make major changes, start over, or stop work on health care reform, versus 26 percent who want the bills passed with minor changes.
On another question, the CNN/Opinion Research pollsters found that 53 percent of those surveyed oppose President Obama's plan to reform health care, with 45 percent favoring the plan. Just two weeks ago, the same pollsters found the public evenly split on the issue, 49 percent to 49 percent.
The 53 percent opposition to ObamaCare is the highest figure in any of six CNN/Opinion Research polls since June. The question asked was whether respondents "favor or oppose Barack Obama's plan to reform health care." Even though the president has not put forth a plan of his own, the White House released a statement today saying that he strongly supports the House Democrats' health care bill.
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ltcdolphin Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 10:36 pm |
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Lavitakus wrote: tspong wrote: I think the Public Option Plan has gotten some "bad press" partially because the name somewhat implies that it is either controlled by the government or it sounds like public assistance.
Actually, the only "bad press" that people are hearing is from the astroturfers.
oh but lav you did say what diva asked you. why do you run from it after you wrote it??
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Lavitakus Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 07:29 pm |
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| The bad press does come from places like this, though. Lets be honest.
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Lavitakus Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 07:23 pm |
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Now, now. That's not what I said. Just commenting on the quote by the op in regard to bad press.
Here - http://www.freepress.net/astroturf
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 06:49 pm |
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Lavitakus wrote: tspong wrote: I think the Public Option Plan has gotten some "bad press" partially because the name somewhat implies that it is either controlled by the government or it sounds like public assistance.
Actually, the only "bad press" that people are hearing is from the astroturfers.
Would you like to explain that comment Lav? Anyone not for this stink is an asrtoturfer?? 
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Lavitakus Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 06:06 pm |
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tspong wrote: I think the Public Option Plan has gotten some "bad press" partially because the name somewhat implies that it is either controlled by the government or it sounds like public assistance.
Actually, the only "bad press" that people are hearing is from the astroturfers.
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ltcdolphin Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 02:20 pm |
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looks like we will pay a extra premium to fund abortion whether we like it or not in the present bill. page 110 apparently says so.
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 11:24 pm |
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ANYTHING that has move-on in their post is an out and out non-American.
Maybe she is the one in the tape that keeps getting played that "obama's gonna give us free money"? Where does it come from- ANS"i don't know maybe he has a stash" etc, etc, etc,
Last edited on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 11:28 pm by dover-diva
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Playing the Game Member

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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 10:35 pm |
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| Who mixed your kool-aid Shirley? BTW what is the sate(sic) of Delaware?
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ltcdolphin Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 08:48 pm |
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| dear Shirely, surely you are kidding??
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tspong Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 08:46 pm |
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Copied below is a letter to U.S. Sen. Thomas R. Carper, D-Del. A copy was submitted to the Delaware State News for publication. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
This letter is to thank Senator Thomas Carper for the wonderful work he is doing for the state of Delaware. We would also like Senator Carper to know that we are indeed counting on him to support a strong public option vote in the Senate; and that many of us oppose the idea of letting the states set up their own individual plan which is not only costly, but gives insurance companies too0 much leverage. We need a plan that will allow people the freedom of keeping their option even if they go to another state. It is not a compromise we are seeking; it is inclusion.
I think the Public Option Plan has gotten some "bad press" partially because the name somewhat implies that it is either controlled by the government or it sounds like public assistance. One suggestion would be to re-market this product and develop a more unambiguous public plan that identifies exactly what is to be covered and who benefits. People really need clarity on what they are opting for. I do like the amendment that Senator Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., offered, which I feel would encourage competition and increase our ability to negotiate rates.
Once again, thank you, Senator Carper, for all you do to support the public option and helping to make Delaware truly "The First State."
Shirley G. Caldwell
Member of Move-on Political Org.
Dover Last edited on Fri Nov 6th, 2009 05:12 pm by tspong
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 06:16 pm |
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MY laugh of the day- considering the source
Sen. Burris Cites Unwritten Constitutional 'Health' Provision to Justify Forcing Americans to Buy Health Insurance
(CNSNews.com) - When CNSNews.com asked Sen. Roland Burris (D-Ill.) what specific part of the Constitution authorizes Congress to mandate that individuals must purchase health insurance, Burris referred to the phrase in the Preamble instructing the federal government to “promote the general welfare,” which Burris apparently interprets to include Americans’ "health."
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 01:03 pm |
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1)
The Democrats’ Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962) is the antithesis of patient-centered reform that empowers Americans to truly own and control their health coverage and provides more choices, more competition, more innovation, higher quality and lower costs.
2)
In deciphering the ins and outs of the new health care system, Americans will have to get familiar with a host of new czars and bureaucrats, including the Health Benefits Advisory Committee (Sec. 223), the Health Choices Administration and the Health Choices Commissioner (Sec. 241).
3)
Americans can say goodbye to personal, private insurance as individual health insurance coverage is grandfathered out of existence (Sec. 202) and more limitations are added to health savings accounts (Sec. 531 & Sec. 533).
4)
Fears of government-run health care are alive and well with experts saying the public health insurance option (Sec. 321) will force tens of millions out of their existing coverage.
5)
The U.S. Constitution and the principle of limited government are tested as never before by forcing Americans to purchase “acceptable” health care coverage or face a tax of 2.5% of modified adjusted gross income (Sec. 501).
6)
Trial lawyers get off scot-free as Democrats pay lip service to real medical malpractice reform, opting to hand over money for lawyer-friendly “alternatives” (Sec. 2531) instead of limiting attorneys’ fees or capping damages.
7)
Washington goes after employers, by mandating they provide health care coverage or pay a tax equal to 8 percent of wages (Sec. 512), and S Corp filers, by instituting a 5.4 percent surtax on taxpayers (Sec. 551).
8)
More low-income individuals (now up to 150% of the federal poverty level) will be pushed onto the rolls of Medicaid (Sec. 1701) leaving already over-stretched State Governments to pick up the tab.
9)
Future costs will be borne by your children and grandchildren. A preliminary analysis by the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the true cost of the bill is $1.055 trillion.
10)
It permits federal funds to be spent on abortion services (Sec. 222).
11)
Community organizations like ACORN may assist the Health Choices Commissioner in enrolling individuals in the Health Insurance Exchange (Sec. 305).
12)
Members of Congress are not subject to the same health care system Americans will have to live by under the public health insurance option (Sec. 330).
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Hartlyboy Member

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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:07 pm |
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To me the deceptive thing about the cost of the proposed legislation is that it focuses on what it will cost the taxpayer through government requirements but is relatively silent on the impact on all the people who have insurance now -who will be paying for someone else's insurance.
Anderson's letter below gives a good example of that cost shift.
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:09 pm by Hartlyboy
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tspong Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:58 pm |
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Copied below is a letter to the editor submitted to the Delaware State News. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
What’s the next name for the health care option?
Upon reading in the State News about government-run health care about to be debated on Congress, one can only wonder how many more times the Democrats can come up with a different name for this so-called health care reform. Let’s see now, it started out as the "government-run option," then the "competitive option," and now Nancy Pelosi’s "the consumer option." What’s next, the "people’s choice option," or better yet, "you’re going to take it or else option"? What’s the old saying? "You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear!"
I also see where they want to tax health care plans on families above $21,000 a year and also individuals above $8,000 a year. If people can afford these premiums, so what? That’s their business, not the government’s. We’ve got too d**n much government now! I wonder if our U.S. Senate and House members are included in this share-the-wealth scheme. Probably with their "Rolls-Royce" insurance, they will exempt themselves from it. Just another case of "Don’t do as I do, do as I say!"
If you remember recently to Obama’s speech no Congress about not signing any health care plan that costs one dime of taxpayers’ money. He didn’t lie about the dime! It’s only going to cost over a trillion dollars according to the CBO! Now according to Sen. Reid’s and Rep. Pelosi’s figures it’s only going to cost $900 billion! Whoopee! Big savings!
Also, I see they’re going to impose fees (i.e., taxes) on insurance companies, drug companies and employers who must pay a fee (i.e., tax) of $750 per employee. Anybody with common sense (politicians aside) knows this to be a farce. All these so-called fees (i.e., taxes) will just be passed on to the consumer. Hoodwinked again.
In a nutshell, the question remains, who’s going to pay for this government welfare scheme to share the wealth? As they say, "If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, then buffalo them with B.S."!
Walter G. McGinnis Jr.
Smyrna
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Newshound Member

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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 01:56 pm |
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Pelosi's health care bill creates 111 new federal Obamacare bureaucracies
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tspong Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 04:11 pm |
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Copied below is a letter to the editor submitted to the Delaware State News. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
Obama-Care continued
Well Point is an excellent health care insurance company operating nationally. Recently, they surveyed 14 states where they run Blue Cross plans. In all 14 states surveyed, Obama-Care would drive up premiums for small business and individuals who happen to be most of Well Point’s customers.
In one instance, a 25-year-old, healthy male, living in Ohio, who is currently paying $52 per month, would see his premium increased to as much as $157, a 201.9% boost.
How could this be? This would be the result of Obama-Care mandate to provide insurance for everyone who applied — regardless of pre-existing conditions — and at the same premium rate for all. You might call this a redistribution of health care.
Another study reports that Obama-Care will provide approximately one trillion dollars of taxpayer money to less than 2% of health care recipients, many of whom are now served at emergency centers throughout the United States.
Columnist Scott Gottlieb said recently, "It is increasingly clear that the initial impact of Obama’s health care reform will be to raise the cost of health insurance and raise the number of uninsured Americans, perhaps sharply."
It is our opinion that these are gimmicks which will impose a stiff price on us: the taxes and spending cuts will by necessity force the cost of private insurance up immediately, forcing many of us to drop our insurance because of its high cost. Incidentally, those who buy their insurance directly will be hit the hardest.
Individuals who are currently insured through their employers will also face hardships since employers will consider new coverages and may repair to the sidelines.
If these employers choose not to offer coverage to their employees they will have to pay a tax equal to the value of government subsidies to these employees. They might then be forced to follow this plan since it would be less expensive for their companies. Their employees would then be forced into government run programs.
One of the biggest losers in this Comedy of Horrors will be small business. In the past 20 years small business owners have listed health costs as their No. 1 concern. To make matters worse, leading "reform" bills will balloon expenses for firms that offer employee health insurance.
Dan Danner is head of the National Federation of Independent Business. Mr. Danner said, "The reform bills’ huge costs will ultimately come out of the small business owner’s pockets and thereby prohibit them from growing or hiring new employees."
Glenn Beck says, "The flood has just begun." So friends, should we now build an ark, or should we "take arms against this sea of abuses and thereby end them"?
Eighty percent of Americans are happy with their present health care. Will we let a small left-wing liberal minority steal away those precious rights bestowed upon us by our founders and our forefathers? Patrick Henry said, "Forbit it Almighty God!"
Daniel G. Anderson
Chevy Chase, Md., and Rehoboth Beach
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tspong Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:32 pm |
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Copied below is a letter to the editor submitted to the Delaware State News. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
With health insurance as the issue, does "Thou shalt love thy neighbor" still apply?
How can we be indifferent to the plight of our fellow Americans who cannot afford health insurance, and therefore are seriously more prone to illness than we who are lucky enough to have Medicare or other insurance?
Forget about well-off people 45 and under who can afford health insurance, but neglect obtaining it because they are not mandated to buy it.
Forget about the wealthy who can get to the best health care facilities in the country, anytime and anywhere.
Forget about certain union workers and retirees from the major corporations who own "Cadillac"-tpye insurance policies which are safe as long as the company is solvent.
Better to remember the recent unemployed who just lost their health insurance and can’t afford COBRA.
Remember this: the poor, the unemployed, and yes, the wealthy, all contribute to the rising cost of health care furnished by insurance corporations living on Wall Street, where their stockholders come first!
We are exhorted by religious conviction to "Love they neighbor," and to help those meet their basic needs. Isn’t health care as basic as one can get?
Irv Levitt
Dover
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:26 pm |
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Doesn't she ever get sick of shilling for BO?
From Someone Who Actually Read the Bill
"I think both in detail and in philosophical direction, I think that it's a very misguided piece of legislation. I think this effort is going to go down in history as one of the biggest bait and switch tactics in modern political history. You have a promise that we're going to tackle costs and make health care more affordable. I think this bill and the Senate counterpart are going to spend more government money -- not less. It's going to cost premium payers more -- not less. And it's a big deception." - Interview with Gov. Pawlenty, The American Spectator
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tspong Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:24 pm |
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Copied below is a letter to the editor submitted to the Delaware State News. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
I urge our Senators Carper and Kaufman to support meaningful health reform including a strong national public plan option that builds on the existing Medicare organization. After an initial start-up period, if any state wishes to opt out, let it do so.
Claiming concerns that private insurers must be protected from unfair competition, Senator Tom Carper opposes a national public plan and has instead proposed that states form their own public plans or open up their state employee health benefits programs. In Delaware state officials remain silent on the subject.
We live in a state where choice of health insurance is limited. Outside of Medicare and Medicaid, two insurance companies, Blue Cross and United Health Care, control 65% of the market share. Delaware needs the competition that a public plan option would create. But we need for it to be a national plan. We need the largest risk pool possible and Delaware is too small for that. Furthermore, no Delaware official has expressed any interest in Senator Carper’s suggestion for a state public plan. In fact, in 2006 and again in 2007, the Delaware General Assembly defeated a proposed statewide insurance pool.
I urge Senator Carper to ask Governor Markel, our Legislators and Insurance Commissioner if they think we can set up a state public plan option. Unless I hear that our state is prepared to do this on their own, I will continue to say we need a national Medicare-like public health insurance option.
Jo Ann Fields, M.D.
Felton
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ltcdolphin Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 07:33 pm |
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Don't you find it intersting that The Rev. Robert Hall, executive director, Delaware Ecumenical Council on Children and Families, and pastor, Salem United Methodist Church is in support of something that kills children.
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Hartlyboy Member

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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 06:12 pm |
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You'd think a bunch of preachers would research their numbers a little better before doing their dance for Obama and his allies. The 40 million uninsured number has been debunked so many times it's a standing joke.
Delaware already has one in five of it's inhabitants getting Medicaid on the taxpayers dime. Maybe if the preachers want to give insurance to people they think deserve it, they should pass the hat in their congregations rather than standing outside the church and dunning the rest of us.
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tspong Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 05:28 pm |
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Copied below is a letter to the editor submitted to the Delaware State News. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
Delaware Faith Communities for Health Care position statement
We who have prayed, worshiped and served in Delaware are heirs to traditions that predate the American Revolution. Based on our experience, we know that one of the strengths of this state and its many communities is the fact that, despite our diverse faith traditions, we are united as a family in believing that health of mind and body are gifts from God. This belief is shared by people of faith across the country and as such, we are all called to care for one another, to provide healing and prevent suffering, just as members of a family care for one another.
Unfortunately, rising health care costs are making it extremely difficult for families in Delaware to survive. During these trouble economic times, when food, housing and utility costs are already straining family budgets, health care costs continue to spin out of control.
Currently, there are 46.3 million Americans, including more than 9 million children, who are living without health insurance. In Delaware, there are about 105,000 persons, about 15.4 percent of the state’s population, who are uninsured and forced to pray every day that they will not become sick or injured.
The sad truth is that these uninsured men, women and children frequently delay medical treatment for too long, even when it is obviously needed, because a visit to the doctor is simply not in the personal or family budget. Too often, our uninsured neighbors are forced to forgo filling prescriptions because of cost and are unable to visit the specialists to which they are referred. Every year, the shocking truth is that some Americans, including some Delawareans, die because they cannot afford vital, necessary medical care.
Faith communities have a long tradition of caring for people who suffer in mind, body and spirit. Delaware is no exception. Clergy advocate for healthier lifestyles from their pulpits and minister to the sick and injured. Parish health ministers, including faith community nurses, help individuals and families to manage their health more effectively. And volunteers with programs like Faith in Action help to assure access to health care services and resources.
These are general comments about the health-related ministries for our faith communities. But churches, synagogues and mosques cannot do this alone. Living without health insurance is a risk that no one in America or Delaware should have to take.
Congress cannot wait any longer to make changes to our current system of health care. As our government has sat idly by over the past few years, the American health care crisis has gotten worse, to the point that a major health-related disaster is imminent. The status quo is simply not a viable or sustainable option. And the cost of failure is economically, socially and morally prohibitive.
Fortunately, much has changed since the last time significant health care reform was debated in the 1990s. There is now consensus among diverse stakeholders that reform is vitally needed and needed soon. There are promising solutions, such as Delaware’s Community Healthcare Access Program, at the state level to draw upon as models. And, above all, there is a national focus on the need for positive and definitive action. The time is ripe for comprehensive, bipartisan health care reform, and Congress must act to make it a reality.
That is why we are joining together, as representatives of the faith communities of the state of Delaware, and thousands of brothers and sisters, people of faith and goodwill all, to present the need for comprehensive health care reform. It is time for our nation’s leaders to work together to assure quality, affordable health care for all Americans.
The Rev. Stephen Ackerman, pastor, Aldersgate United Methodist Church
The Rev. Dr. Sandra Steiner Ball, conference resource director, The United Methodist Church
The Rev. Sylvester Beaman, pastor, Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church
The Rev. James Bimbi, rector, St. James Episcopal Church
Alice Davis, elder, Hanover Presbyterian Church
The Rev. Dr. Elisa Diller, pastor, Christiana Presbyterian Church
The Rev. Robert Hall, executive director, Delaware Ecumenical Council on Children and Families, and pastor, Salem United Methodist Church
The Rev. John Holden, pastor, Mount Salem United Methodist Church
The Rev. Jennifer Kerby, pastor, Mount Lebnaon United Methodist Church
The Rev. Tracey Mooney, pastor, Peniel United Methodist Church
The Rev. Dr. James Mosley, executive presbyter, New Castle Presbytery
Anne Murray, parish nurse, Aldersgate United Methodist Church
LaVaida Owens White, facilitator, Delaware Region Health Ministries Network, and parish nurse, Christ Our King Roman Catholic Church
The Rev. Tom Pasmore, pastor, Richardson Park United Methodist Church
The Rev. John Ranney, director of public policy, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
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tspong Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 04:18 pm |
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Copied below is a letter to the editor submitted to the Delaware State News. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
Health care debacle
As the Congress ponders their many strange issues, let me ask one simple question. Where in the Constitution was Congress granted the power to force people to buy health insurance and punish them with a punitive tax if they were unwilling or unable to pay it? This sounds like a "Debtors Prison" of long, long ago.
Human Events editor-at-large Terrence Jeffrey makes the point that broccoli may be good for our health, but can Congress make us buy it? Of course not! Even if any of this were constitutional, which it isn’t, it is in fact pure fantasy. Americans will never buy it.
Another issue, to add insult to injury, on behalf of our illustrious Administration, Nancy Pelosi has falsely accused private insurers of making "immoral profits" when, in fact, their profit margins shrank to 2.2% last year (Associated Press report). So they are excoriating those very companies that have provided us with such admirable services for only a meager profit!
Steve Forbes has suggested that House Energy/Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman and his gang "are openly engaged in a campaign of harassment and intimidation against 52 of America’s largest health insurance providers and that they seek nothing less than to silence all voices opposed to government-run health care."
Obamacare cares little for those unbearable costs and inefficiencies of their proposed programs. This is simply a rank and raw grab for control of one-sixth of our economy. Already they virtually control the banks and a once-private auto industry. What do you suppose is next, a completely socialistic state?
Our founding fathers had no such fantasies. Shortly before our Revolution, American patriot Patrick Henry stood in Virginia’s State Assembly to say, "Is life so sweet or peace so dear as to be purchased for the price of chains and freedom? Forbid it Almighty God!
Dear friends, let us all stand and put down this rotten abuse! Let us now fight fr freedom in our choice of health care, broccoli and, by the way, Democracy!
Daniel G. Anderson
Chevy Chase, Md., and Rehoboth Beach
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boxerbaron Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 10:33 pm |
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I came across this commentary and I can not verifiy the committee head comment, but the rest is pretty much on target.
Obama's health care plan willl be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by congressmen who haven't read it, signed by a president who smokes, funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes in a timely manner, overseen by a surgeon general who borders on obesity, and financed by a country that is trillions of dollars in debt.
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 01:50 am |
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Playing the Game wrote: Carper has a web site. Who knew that he was smart enough?
dover-diva wrote:
Altho I did C&P and send to our congress-critters.
I have been having a "problem with the CARPer site. Bounced 3 times. I wonder what's up????
I didn't say "HE" created it!! I agree, I don't think he is bright enough.
http://www.delaware.gov
Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 01:54 am by dover-diva
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Playing the Game Member

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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:47 am |
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Carper has a web site. Who knew that he was smart enough?
dover-diva wrote:
Altho I did C&P and send to our congress-critters.
I have been having a "problem with the CARPer site. Bounced 3 times. I wonder what's up????
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jh62 Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:34 am |
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I think its incredulous that you (Lav and Mendavor) are so absolute in your belief that the government knows better than you do or the population in general knows. I have 2 children who are growing up in a very uncertain world, and if you do not think the successive generations will not be paying for all these government atrocities that have sunk and will continue to sink our nation to a nearly 3rd world level through massive debt, you are sadly misguided and naive. By the way, if people truly are giving their children healthier more wholesome foods and life activities, why are video games so darn popular and why do so many kids look like "weebles who wobble but don't fall down". Give me a break, I think both of you live in some sort of altered state of reality, but thats what makes this country so great and probably why you choose to live here, you can speak freely and come and go as you please without so much as a second thought. Unfortunately, the Pelosi's, Reids and other malcontents who currently run this country will be its downfall, not its savior. Pelosi wants to change the name of the Public option to "consumer option" so that people won't "mistakenly think their tax dollars are paying for it". I can't believe she said that, where else would the money be coming from??? Continue to follow blindly and you will end up falling off a cliff. As you are entitled to your opinion, so am I. I really don't side with Dumocrats or Republicans, color me INDEPENDENT and remember this country, like it or not, tends to lean center right, not left. I think 2010 will be a statement yr politically.Unless of course we all become blind mice.
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:11 am |
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Altho I did C&P and send to our congress-critters.
I have been having a "problem with the CARPer site. Bounced 3 times. I wonder what's up????
Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:23 am by dover-diva
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Hartlyboy Member

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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:07 am |
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dover-diva wrote: Hartlyboy wrote: As far as health care reform, I'm not sure what to make of what they have cobbled up now. I know Harry Reid said today that union members wouldn't be taxed on the health care benefits they get so 'someone' else is going to have to kick in to help raise money to pay for whatever it is they are going to do.
Basically we had 3% of the population who couldn't get health insurance and now half of that number will get health insurance at the cost of a trillion dollars over 10 years and cut backs in Medicare [Medicaid still seems immune from reality].
Just what is the cost-benefit ratio of this highly partisan endeavor?
That's the question no one wants to ask, much less answer.
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dover-diva Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:05 am |
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Hartlyboy wrote: As far as health care reform, I'm not sure what to make of what they have cobbled up now. I know Harry Reid said today that union members wouldn't be taxed on the health care benefits they get so 'someone' else is going to have to kick in to help raise money to pay for whatever it is they are going to do.
Basically we had 3% of the population who couldn't get health care and now half of that number will get health care at the cost of a trillion dollars over 10 years and cut backs in Medicare [Medicaid still seems immune from reality].
Just what is the cost-benefit ratio of this highly partisan endeavor?
That's the question no one wants to ask, much less answer.
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Hartlyboy Member

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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:00 am |
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As far as health care reform, I'm not sure what to make of what they have cobbled up now. I know Harry Reid said today that union members wouldn't be taxed on the health care benefits they get so 'someone' else is going to have to kick in to help raise money to pay for whatever it is they are going to do.
Basically we had 3% of the population who couldn't get health insurance and now half of that number will get health insurance at the cost of a trillion dollars over 10 years and cut backs in Medicare [Medicaid still seems immune from reality].
Just what is the cost-benefit ratio of this highly partisan endeavor?
Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:08 am by Hartlyboy
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Habanero Member

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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 11:49 pm |
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Mendavor wrote: Lavitakus wrote: Mendavor wrote: So, too, capitalism gives rise to socialism.
Don't you think that this has already happened? At least to a misunderstood premise? Look at how corporations have, do and continue to privatize profit and redistribute loss.
Certainly socialism has never succeeded because it has never been applied as it is truthfully understood to be but look at what authoritarians(they call themselves conservatives but are in fact not conservatives) have done to this country.
Of course this has already ha[pened. We practically control the entire government now. We have arrived. Give praise to the new and greater glory of the State. So to argue with the idiots of the false ideology of the Right is pointless. It is best to give the positive aspects of our movement. Contrreol your emotions and forge straight ahead. We have almost total victory.
"Almost" is the operative word here, and even that is tanking quickly.
Keep an eye on the elections next week in Virginia, New York, and New Jersey.....then talk to me about your "almost" victory.
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no one else Member

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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 01:21 pm |
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| According to the Senate Finance Committee's "plain English" version of the "Bill", one can get health care insurance at the Department of Motor Vehicles." Yup, along with voter registrations you can buy your next health insurance plan. Although theere is no legislation written in this version, it may come to pass in the final version of the merged House and Senate vesions. The US Secretary of the Helath and Human Services or the state governments will be overseeing federally mandated health insurance exchanges to ensure that you can get your plan at the DMV. (From page 19 of the Plain English text)
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Playing the Game Member

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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 12:59 am |
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Amen.
kentvoice wrote:
Adding more government complexity to the mix will not improve what would otherwise be a simple and affordable system if the government would just get out of the way. If car insurance were run the same way as health insurance, we'd be crying for national car insurance reform right now, too. You'd need a full time job to get car insurance, and the govt would require all insurance plans to cover gasoline, oil changes, and repairs. All mechanics would have to be certified by a state board. You'd have no idea how much an oil change cost, but it wouldn't matter because the government would be paying for it. Etc.
Dr. Fields, who has practiced medicine for less than 20 years has always worked in a government system, so unfortunately is short on perspective, and trusts the government too much.
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Mendavor Member

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Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2009 11:41 pm |
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Lavitakus wrote: Mendavor wrote: So, too, capitalism gives rise to socialism.
Don't you think that this has already happened? At least to a misunderstood premise? Look at how corporations have, do and continue to privatize profit and redistribute loss.
Certainly socialism has never succeeded because it has never been applied as it is truthfully understood to be but look at what authoritarians(they call themselves conservatives but are in fact not conservatives) have done to this country.
Of course this has already ha[pened. We practically control the entire government now. We have arrived. Give praise to the new and greater glory of the State. So to argue with the idiots of the false ideology of the Right is pointless. It is best to give the positive aspects of our movement. Contrreol your emotions and forge straight ahead. We have almost total victory.
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Lavitakus Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2009 11:35 pm |
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Mendavor wrote: So, too, capitalism gives rise to socialism.
Don't you think that this has already happened? At least to a misunderstood premise? Look at how corporations have, do and continue to privatize profit and redistribute loss.
Certainly socialism has never succeeded because it has never been applied as it is truthfully understood to be but look at what authoritarians(they call themselves conservatives but are in fact not conservatives) have done to this country.
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Mendavor Member

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Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2009 11:34 pm |
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Let's just stick with the basics. Some ask whether guaranteeing basic necessities, free education, low-cost housing and health care will encourage people to avoid working, or doing their best. The principle of socialism is: From each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her work.
Socialism provides incentives for working better, producing more and higher quality goods, acquiring advanced skills. It does NOT equalize wages. Wages vary according to occupation and efficiency, although everyone is guaranteed a liveable wage.
Under capitalism, improvements in skill, organization and technology are rightly feared by the worker, since they threaten jobs. Under socialism, they offer the chance to make the job more interesting and rewarding, as well as to improve living standards.
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