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BlowingUrCover
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 09:09 pm |
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ShannonFlynn wrote: I replied to defend myself.
You defend yourself if guilty. Just like Joe did about where he lives.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 07:04 pm |
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| Oh please. More spin. I replied to defend myself.
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BlowingUrCover
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 02:59 pm |
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| Simply put, it looks like you are obsessed/guilty or you wouldn't have responded!
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 03:56 am |
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Where do u come up with this sort of crap? I log on with my name. The only other name I used was slf2008 about 6 months ago. I have very little time to blog unlike what your making it out to look like. I didnt divulge anything that wasnt already there. I'm not trying to out smart anyone. You may very well think you know it's me? What is "it's" me anyway. I'm not the one looking like I'm the obsessed here.
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Shannon, why are you so obsessed with trying to divulge the identity of people on this and the Trib site? Are you just one of those type of people that think they can outsmart others? Or has Walp promised you a Detective job?
Shannon, why do you have so many different names on this forum and the Trib? Don't think your smarter than others, because we all know it's you.
And by the way Shannon, you forget to go into your alter egos when you use the other names. And you think you are so smart.
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BlowingUrCover
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 01:13 am |
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| Guess the webmaster isn't working right now. The posts about Shannon are still here. Y'all know she really has to put some thought into what she whines about to get them removed. People are being mean to her. Cyber bullying, personal attack, whatever. But by golly, she can rip the snot out of who ever and it's ok. Tomorrow I guess. It's ok. Just come back with new names just like YOU SHANNON!
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MWW85220
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 11:32 pm |
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nicotaijulo wrote:
As a veteran, do you not support freedom of choice ? How about freedom of speech ? 
There are alot of us who do not wish to pledge any allegiance to a flag that represents a corrupt government , corrupt leader with only a double digit IQ , a nation over-run with idiots , and dictated by people who think the only religion should be the Christian religion.
When someone dislikes the way this country has become, it does not mean that we do not respect veterans ! We dislike the leader(s), the pointless wars and the facade that is used to create war ! (Except WW2 and prior wars that ACTUALLY WERE defending our freedom) But I do support the TROOPS because they are doing what THEY believe is RIGHT. Like I said FREEDOM OF CHOICE.
Where did you get this?
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BlowingUrCover
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 11:24 pm |
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Shannon, why are you so obsessed with trying to divulge the identity of people on this and the Trib site? Are you just one of those type of people that think they can outsmart others? Or has Walp promised you a Detective job?
Shannon, why do you have so many different names on this forum and the Trib? Don't think your smarter than others, because we all know it's you.
And by the way Shannon, you forget to go into your alter egos when you use the other names. And you think you are so smart.
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ajbizowner
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 10:10 pm |
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lovinglife wrote: One should not put ones personal info on the profile page which anyone can click on an read. Make it private, then this sort of thing doesnt come up. It's not a Shannon thing, its your responsibility not to put info out onto the internet that you do not want people to see. We who read your post know who you are. It's on your profile! We know you the person who attends the city meetings.
lovinglife,
I was being facetious when I said I was "worried" about Shannon blowing my so-called "cover". Shannon is so proud of herself for using a couple of mouse clicks so that she can "out" the "secret identities" of the people who disagree with her. Maybe she thinks this special skill of hers will intimidate me, MWW and others on this blog and the Tribune and we'll run away and hide.
I own a business and every year, I hand out thousands of cards with my name, address and phone number on them. Simply being in business reduces my expectations of having more than basic "privacy" - think advertising and marketing. If they don't know who you are or how to find you, there's not much sense in being in business, is there?
There's far more information than a profile on a blog forum like this one "out there". Court and police records, prison records (often as detailed as cell number and/or inmate evaluations), property taxes, business registrations with tax departments and licensing agencies, traffic citations, birth and marriage/divorce records, income tax information, DMV, phone records and even employer/employment information and Social Security numbers are available to someone who knows where to look. Take it from someone who is used to "digging up old bones" - I'm not worried because someone reads my profile and posts the information on this blog.
edited to add: I forgot to mention that I *LOVE* doing research! Last edited on Sun Apr 6th, 2008 11:37 pm by ajbizowner
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flyrep
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 04:28 am |
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Bizowner,
I never said that I wanted more ordinances just for the sake of having them.
I prefer less in general.
If we must have more of them, may they not usurp our rights. What if they
imitated the state legislature? They have been restoring some of our
stolen gun rights. Ever hear of the castle doctrine? They also cut HOA
powers and cut them deep.
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agreatlife
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 02:27 am |
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| I forgot to say this one. What kind of idiot would put their horse feed in a freaking metal cargo container. They must not be real horse people. You don't put feed or hay in those unless they got ac. That's another thing that makes me mad. This guy has to go. He is useless and full of hot air. Have you seen the house he lived in? It's the ugliest thing you ever saw. It got stripes on the outside. What kind of idiot puts stripes on the outside of the house when they are trying to sell it. And my husband says Joe looks like he dyes his hair with blonde. That must go with the stripes on the house.
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agreatlife
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 02:21 am |
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| Just found out about this place from the people with the recall on Joe. This is great. A place where I can say what I feel about him. First I think it's disgusting that this guy is getting away with living in Gilbert. I don't care what any body says he lives in Gilbert. We don't live to far from him and ever since we read about that we make it a point to go over by his house. No body is ever there. So if he says he is well don't believe it. And he is taking my tax dollars to boot. Next the things he said about the schools has really made me mad. My kid goes to the high school and there is nothing wrong with the school. Just one thing got blown out of control. That's it. Next the crap he said about the mayor not caring about the town. What kind of person would say that kind of thing. And scaring people about shootings. Does he know some of the kind of crack pots we have in this town. Don't give any one any ideas. Then he has his wife write letters about him to make him look good. Give me a break. Be a man and write your own letter. Why is this guy still allowed in the city? He should be banned from all the meetings. Now I'm really getting mad. I'm going to call my friends and have them sign the paper to get him the hell out of here.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 01:47 am |
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So, we know you to be the talking head for Severs & Co. SO WHAT?
How much USABLE land do you have or should I check the tax rolls?
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lovinglife
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 01:37 am |
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One should not put ones personal info on the profile page which anyone can click on an read. Make it private, then this sort of thing doesnt come up. It's not a Shannon thing, its your responsibility not to put info out onto the internet that you do not want people to see. We who read your post know who you are. It's on your profile! We know you the person who attends the city meetings.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 01:16 am |
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Flynn
People use screen names for a reason and most normal people respect their anonymity and privacy but you seem to respect no one except yourself.
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ajbizowner
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 12:37 am |
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Oh my gosh, Shannon! You've blown my cover! Now what should I do??? Oh worries, worries!
I've got it - I'll seek sanctuary in ilovenoel's "fortress of solitude"!
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 11:41 pm |
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85220, ajbizowner Weller and such....
The trailer issue is an old issue. I will add, not one that would not start a recall on any member of council. And yes we did get what we needed to be done done. Do you homework before stating unverified facts. You have a way of putting words into people's mouth. Here and on other local blogs. My land isn't up for sale dear bead man and woman. I wouldn't sell it to you if it was. Please get over yourself. I'm not going to belittle my person by spending time trying to defend myself to someone of your sorts. Say what u will. If people want to know 1st hand then I'm more then willing to take their call.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 10:45 pm |
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Flynn
You park you trailer where you want and wether it offends anyone is not your problem? Grow up!
You are PO'ed because you didn't get your way! Pure and simple.
I might be able to cure your problem with AJ, how much is your property worth?
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yabbadabba
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 10:35 pm |
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Shannon wrote:
I find talking about curtain people nonproductive as they ( the person at hand ) turn everything I say and put thier own spin on it.
Shannon, who are these curtain people you are talking about? Is this a club or something? I might want to join.Last edited on Sat Apr 5th, 2008 10:58 pm by yabbadabba
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ajbizowner
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 10:32 pm |
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flyrep wrote: <snipped> The AJ city council needs to pass more ordinances based on common sense. I don't see that here so I support the
recall which is totally compatible with the Arizona Constitution. Politicians and
others seem to fear recall which is a peaceful tool. Remember what Jefferson said:
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
flyrep,
So - on one hand, you are for less government getting into your personal business, but on the other, you want MORE ordinances, "based on common sense" - in YOUR opinion - for the rest of us.
A great man once said to me: "Common sense isn't".
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flyrep
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 08:24 pm |
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Laws against murder and running red lights are for the common good, but excessive regulations go too far as private property is to be used by the individual owner, not the government or others unless the owner so desires. The Soviets said that property was for the common good while Americans have always understood private property to be just that, private. Laws are supposed to protect our rights, not to take them away arbitrarily. Like I said, I govern myself
well and I don't need a nanny. I think that I jay walked the other day in front of a Mesa police officer. He and two others were too busy dealing with a domestic violence situation and most officers tend to let that go or just give a warning which is common sense. The AJ city council needs to pass more ordinances based on common sense. I don't see that here so I support the
recall which is totally compatible with the Arizona Constitution. Politicians and
others seem to fear recall which is a peaceful tool. Remember what Jefferson said:
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 04:31 pm |
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Property regulations are set for the common good and not for individual needs. I am not the person that did a song and dance at council meetings because my trailer was parked in violation of a city ordinance! I am not the person that because council would not acquiess to my desires, got bitter and has set in motion a recall. These tactics do not compare to Nazi Germany but they are a step in that direction.
"I tend to favor governing myself most of the time and my record shows that I've done so quite well."
Do you stop at red lights or do you stop for the common good? So you govern yourself and the neighbors be damned?
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flyrep
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 07:19 am |
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85220,
What do you mean that rules are made for the majority governed? Some members of the city council say that we are a democracy. Yes, majority rules in democracy, but the U.S. is a republic as per Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution. The council is supposed to defend the rights of all citizens, but they tend to violate the rights of property owners from time to time. I tend to favor governing myself most of the time and my record shows that I've done so quite well. What activism or bully boy tactics have you seen that compare to the brutality of Hitler's Brown Shirts in the latter days of the Weimar Republic and early years of the Third Reich?
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hubabuau
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 03:42 am |
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"I believe this newspaper, the other local paper and the Tribune all covered the story. " Also, I think it's documented with our local police department.
I too feel some of the meetings go long, but my opinion is that there has been a lot of speakers in the call to the public. You can read my thoughts about this on the other issue that was just posted.
I find that when the council discusses items that they have heard before, it's because after they have been given a preview, they have time to think the item through and find something that might have been left out or should be changed. I wouldn't like to see ordinances approved with flaws, then have to redo them. My opinion, that is time well spent on their part and mine as well.
If you go back in time, I think you will find that there has been many times that the attorney/clerk have had to put several of the previous mayors back on track as well. It's unfair of you to use that as a measure of a persons ability to act as the mayor.
We might disagree on this, but I think he only did that because someone said something at the previous meeting. And saying the pledge one time, doesn't make up for all the other times that he hasn't. Now, that just shows all that he is a hypocrite. My opinion.
As for the other person, I respect your opinion that you don't wish to respond.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 01:54 am |
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6 months of political activism.....and you think you have a handle on the problems of our city? Are you conversant with the different commissions and the problems of individual areas of the city? How about the credit rating of the city and any bond issues that will come up within the next 6 months?
Have you been through the Citizens Leadership Academy? FYI, if you don't know how things operate you can't say if they are broken or not.
The arguing at council meetings is so they get the best results for the citizens, different points of view are discussed in public in a rational logical manner. Not everyone will be happy with everything that the government does but you have to understand that rules are made for the majority of the governed and not each minority group.
You state that the arguing should be done in executive session and then the people should be told the resulting law. Only in a totalitarian state does the ruling body tell the citizens what to do. Russia was totalitarian and it died because the people got tired of being told what to do all the time. Each person in America has the right to voice his or her opinion but remember that everyone else also has a right to voice theirs. Rational people will see any merit in the discussions and act accordingly for the betterment of the majority of the citizens. Bully boy tactics help no one, if you need an example, read about 1920-1939 Germany.
IMO you need to think for yourself and not just listen to one group.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 12:39 am |
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I have only actively been following local happens like I said about 6 months. I have been involved in other kinds of activism for a few years now. Where would I find this info you want me to read on Severs?
"With that, yes I have attended some meetings in the past on issues that were of great concern to me. And no, I didn't speak. But I can honestly say, that whether in person or on the TV, I still get the same interaction and feeling that things are going well."
I have only missed one meeting since Oct. I do not see the meetings as going well. Many Tuesday night meetings run too long. They should use the time in the work session to get the bickering and such worked out. Our Mayor doesn't know how to run the meetings. The city clerk and attorney are always having to remind him how and what to do. They just do not fit well together in my option. I don't want a bunch of yes men and they do not need to always agree but they should be educated on matters they vote on by the time they have seen an item either once or by the 2nd time it reaches the agenda. Our council spends way too much time on many matters.
"I will say that I will not support Mr. Severs, due to the residency issue, other things that he has said and done (I can list several if needed) and especially now that I know he doesn't say the pledge."
I was at the last meeting and he said the pledge. Hand on heart speaking.... So
"Let's move on to your feeling that another council member told the media about Mr. Severs residency. Can you elaborate on this, so we can continue to discuss this item?"
This subject is sort of growing old. I would rather not elaborate on the other member. If you want to know more please call our public servants themselves. It's always better to get it from those who know 1st hand. I have called many myself and most do call back.
I'm not meaning to be rude what so ever. I just have no respect for this "other member" and not just because of this person's actions with this issue with Severs but on other matters as well. I find talking about curtain people nonproductive as they ( the person at hand ) turn everything I say and put thier own spin on it. Even if I have facts to back up my words. With everything I have going on I do not have time to defend myself with these sorts of matters. I hope you can understand.
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hubabuau
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 06:26 pm |
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I didn't realize that you have only been covering issues for approximately 6 months. I thought you were a seasoned political activist. Maybe you could do some research on that issue of the officers and Mr. Severs. I believe this newspaper, the other local paper and the Tribune all covered the story. I'm interested to hear what you would have to say.
I think you are able to view my point on the attorney advising Mr. Severs. And yes, I understand that this vote is over, but I'm wondering why the attorney hadn't or hasn't tried to remedy the situation and suggest that they possible review the voting without Mr. Severs input and vote. I don't know if that would change the others opinion or not. Just thinking out loud.
Realizing that a few of the council members have been on there for some years, I tend to think that if they were as knowledgeable about the law as you indicate, they would be sitting in the attorneys chair. My opinion, they shouldn't have to be up on all legal statues, however, the attorney is required to. They are elected to represent the residents, pass or deny issues or ordinances brought before them. It is the attorney and maybe staffs job to ensure that the legalities are met and that information is provided to the council members.
With that, yes I have attended some meetings in the past on issues that were of great concern to me. And no, I didn't speak. But I can honestly say, that whether in person or on the tv, I still get the same interaction and feeling that things are going well.
My opinion, most of the elected officials are doing a good job and I will support them in the recall. I will say that I will not support Mr. Severs, due to the residency issue, other things that he has said and done (I can list several if needed) and especially now that I know he doesn't say the pledge. My opinion, that is a true disgrace to our country and the many people (past, present and future) that have fought to defend our freedom.
I noticed that you didn't have anything to say about my response on tainted. So I will take it that you understand my point of view.
Let's move on to your feeling that another council member told the media about Mr. Severs residency. Can you elaborate on this, so we can continue to discuss this item?
Awaiting your response.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:29 pm |
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ShannonFlynn wrote: Very very negative. Tink
TINK, is this some STEAM team code word?
Negative, I was just trying to enlighten you.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:25 pm |
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| Very very negative. Tink
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MWW85220
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:19 pm |
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Flynn
FYI, WAIST is part of the human body. PLEASE use the English language and not some abomination of it.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:16 pm |
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Flynn
FYI, you need to turn off the sound on your PDA at council meetings. The noise annoys some of the people around you.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:16 pm |
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| Well, I most certainly am not going to waste anymore of my time Tink. Last edited on Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:21 pm by ShannonFlynn
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MWW85220
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:09 pm |
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ShannonFlynn wrote: please see my remarks. It's just your tone is all.
HOW do you hear my tone? Do you use a crystal ball?
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:07 pm |
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| please see my remarks. It's just your tone is all.
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MWW85220
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:06 pm |
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| RUDE? Nothing was rude about my comments UNLESS you are offended by the truth.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:02 pm |
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U need not be rude.
Weller right, azbusowner.... u own the bead shop next to Jeff's. I went in this past summer for some ruby colored beads. Your wife was very nice! Yes I did see u this past Tuesday. Why didnt u do a speak, u have in the past.
Last edited on Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:07 pm by ShannonFlynn
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MWW85220
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:54 pm |
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ShannonFlynn wrote:
Sir, with all due respect you are putting words in my mouth. I do not think such a thing. Severs states he lives on Star Rd and his fellow many peers on council state the same with the vote they placed. That would make him a resident here in Apache Junction.
You being upset with my thoughts on this seems not to be the issue. PLEASE go to our council meetings and be heard. Ask them why your civil rights are being vioated if you feel they are? I understand your thoughts but you seem to be mad with the wrong person.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I go to council meetings or I watch them on the computer and I am tired of the STEAM team finding fault with everything and everyone! When the members of the STEAM team are cornered by facts, they attack. The council voted not to investigate one of their own, they did not say that Severs lives in AJ. This issue is not at an end, it will be addressed at a higher level. If YOU think Severs lives on Star Rd, I have swamp land near Florence Junction that I want to sell you!
Last edited on Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:54 pm by MWW85220
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:48 pm |
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"You didn't reply to my question about the officers responding outside the city limits to help Mr. Severs on a business issue. When you respond to that, we can continue the discussion on this."
I don't know too much about that issue. I didnt mean not to respond just cant really. I didnt start covering many issues till later Oct 07.
"So if I understand this, the city attorney is the one to advise council members to leave discussions and not the other council members. So again I would ask, if Mr. Severs had discussed this issue with the city attorney, then the attorney had prior knowledge of the situation and when it was brought before the council, one would think that he (attorney) would have advised Mr. Severs of a potential conflict of interest. One would think anyway."
I tend to think so.
"You say with this council it is a MUST and any others to have a city attorney. I agree that every city, town, county, etc., should have an attorney for legal matters. What I find interesting is that you say with this council it is a MUST. Why the emphasis on this council? Is there issues that you know of that the rest of us don't know about?"
For three of its members to have been on council for 8 or more years this group is very green. Do u get to make the meetings in person? If so you would see what I mean. They keep the Atty very busy.
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hubabuau
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:36 pm |
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My opinion, Fisher is a very argumentative person. He feels that most everything within the city of AJ and it's government are on the wrong path, because he sees it differently. He is argumentative with almost everyone and everything. I would make an assumption (of course we know where that goes) that he also finds fault with his working conditions, his employer, his relationships, etc. Not to say that he isn't entitled to his opinion and his thoughts, but I wonder when he has ever really listened to or agreed with anyone or anyone's point of view. His reasonings and objective statements, always move him into a different sector, which alienates him with the majority of others. That would be tainted. And, remember I said you weren't as tainted as he. We are discussing issues, trying to give the other our points of view, whether we agree with them or not.
You didn't reply to my question about the officers responding outside the city limits to help Mr. Severs on a business issue. When you respond to that, we can continue the discussion on this.
So if I understand this, the city attorney is the one to advise council members to leave discussions and not the other council members. So again I would ask, if Mr. Severs had discussed this issue with the city attorney, then the attorney had prior knowledge of the situation and when it was brought before the council, one would think that he (attorney) would have advised Mr. Severs of a potential conflict of interest. One would think anyway.
You say with this council it is a MUST and any others to have a city attorney. I agree that every city, town, county, etc., should have an attorney for legal matters. What I find interesting is that you say with this council it is a MUST. Why the emphasis on this council? Is there issues that you know of that the rest of us don't know about?
Awaiting your response.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 09:03 am |
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MWW85220 wrote:
Flynn
So you think that a RESIDENT of AJ should have a person from GILBERT making decisions on AJ's council!
WHY are my CIVIL RIGHTS to representation before my local government being violated?
A public official should recuse themselves whenever there is a hint of self interest in a decision!!
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Sir, with all due respect you are putting words in my mouth. I do not think such a thing. Severs states he lives on Star Rd and his fellow many peers on council state the same with the vote they placed. That would make him a resident here in Apache Junction.
You being upset with my thoughts on this seems not to be the issue. PLEASE go to our council meetings and be heard. Ask them why your civil rights are being vioated if you feel they are? I understand your thoughts but you seem to be mad with the wrong person.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 08:45 am |
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I completely understand your feelings on Fisher. Thanks for sharing.
"You don't seem to be as tainted as Fisher."
I do not understand why you see me as tainted. Please explain.
On the Animal Control and Police Department issue. I stand by my opinion that I feel very much that it was favoritism and special treatment due to the fact the that it was a police officer helping a police officer. It would not have been done if it was just you or myself. Now, having said that I did speak with Chief Kelly on the matter and we both agree that if it was handled in a different manner it would not have looked as it did. Meaning, if Apache Junction Animal Control had called Mesa's Animal Control informed them of the matter it would have been city helping city. That would be the compassionate thing to do. Kelly himself stated that this matter was not dealt with properly. Also the officers family DID NOT pay or have the intention to pay. They were asked to pay on a different date and time. It is corruption in smaller form.
"Why do you think that his peers should have asked him to leave? Is that how it works? Anyone can ask another to leave the conversation if they think that person has a conflict of interest? If that is the case, I would think that they might not need a city attorney, if you will."
I dint think follow council members should ask him to leave. If there IS a conflict of interest I would tend to think that would be our city attorney position to deal with. With this council it is A MUST and with any others to have a city attorney.
"You feel the attorney isn't the one to have advised him to excuse himself. "
No. No no.... the attorney is the only one I feel that should have the responsibly to as a member to excuse him due to conflict of interest.
"why did Mr. Severs turn to the attorney in the first place?"
I would suppose Severs himself is the only one to answer that question.
"I heard that this all started because someone took out papers to make city employees live in the city. Do you know if this is true?"
My understanding at a city meeting that there was an individual wanting to get petitions signed for future city employees to live within the city limits. That was on in a call to the public.
I feel and will continue to feel it was started due to another council member going to the media.
I would like to continue blogging with you. If I implied I did not want to, I do apologize.
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hubabuau
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 10:09 pm |
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Just saw this. ShannonFlynn you asked:
"I'm wondering why if you feel I'm a clone of Fisher would you waist any of your time blogging with me? By your words one could think you hold no respect for him. I was only wondering is all."
You're correct, I have no respect for Fisher. My opinion, he is a glory hound trying to bring others down to his level. When people do that, they have no respect for any type of government, people or themselves. He goes about trying to create change in a very hostile way. If you want to be successful, you must make other people successful first.
You don't seem to be as tainted as Fisher. And, I'm always eager to discuss matters with all.
You also said:
"If you watched me on TV then you would know the issues I speak of are real issues."
One of the issues I remember was when you said the Animal Control and Police Department were out of line by helping a fellow officer with a dog issue. If I remember correctly, you referred to this as corruption. My opinion, that was a compassionate thing to do, not corruption. But, you failed to mention what you would call the issue of the Police Department sending officers out of the city limits to help Mr. Severs with a business situation? My opinion, that was corruption and scratching each others back. Which brings to focus why Mr. Severs was so vocal about retaining Mr. Walp.
I realize my opinions are not yours, but that it is a way of communicating. If you want to discontinue our discussions, that is your choice.
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lovinglife
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 10:02 pm |
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| Man oh man what people read when they want to see something. Find the money then and take the guy to court. Were's the easy button on this one?
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MWW85220
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 06:57 pm |
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Flynn
So you think that a RESIDENT of AJ should have a person from GILBERT making decisions on AJ's council!
WHY are my CIVIL RIGHTS to representation before my local government being violated?
A public official should recuse themselves whenever there is a hint of self interest in a decision!!
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hubabuau
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 03:37 pm |
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ShannonFlynn wrote: Carrol did I answer the way you thought I should?
Did this get put on the wrong article?
I will agree with you that Mr. Severs should have voted yes to go with the investigation since he voted on himself. That would have shown people that he had nothing to hide. That said, it gives the impression that he is, which will linger in the minds of voters. And yes, I will remember.
Why do you think that his peers should have asked him to leave? Is that how it works? Anyone can ask another to leave the conversation if they think that person has a conflict of interest? If that is the case, I would think that they might not need a city attorney, if you will.
"You feel the attorney isn't the one to have advised him to excuse himself. If that is the case, why has the attorney advised others on different matters? Or, why did Mr. Severs turn to the attorney in the first place?" I do not have the answers to the above questions. Sorry.
Have you found out yet?
Let's explore some other directions of this situation. I heard that this all started because someone took out papers to make city employees live in the city. Do you know if this is true?
Awaiting your response.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 10:15 am |
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| Carrol did I answer the way you thought I should?
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 03:14 am |
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Not on the fence. I would just like to see this issue have a ending. Council voted, time to move on. OR again as I have already said have someone flip the bill to take it to court.
Yes, I feel that if there was nothing to hide vote yes.
I didn't say I thought his peers should advise him. Just that they had not asked him to leave.
"There is obviously an issue, no matter how personal in nature. If Mr. Severs respected his peers, he should be able to confide in them."
I would think not. I disagree, personal matters no matter how personal in nature do not need to be taken to up with fellow council members.
"You feel the attorney isn't the one to have advised him to excuse himself. If that is the case, why has the attorney advised others on different matters? Or, why did Mr. Severs turn to the attorney in the first place?"
I do not have the answers to the above questions. Sorry.
"You feel that because his peer(s) have created this issue, he should have stayed. Again, had he advised his peers to begin with, it would be a mute point."
I think he had a right to stay. He would not have advised of such as he states that he lives within Apache Junction. ( It should be a mute point at that point )
"So, why do you think he voted no?"
I do not know his reasons behind his voting. You should ask him yourself.
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hubabuau
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 03:20 pm |
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Trying to understand your answers to my questions. Let's see if I get it right. But, one at a time.
a.1) You are on the fence with this. You think Mr. Severs peers should have requested that he excuse himself from discussions and voting, not the attorney. Because you believe his peer(s) have created this issue, he should have stayed. But, you say that if there was nothing to hide, he should have voted yes on himself.
It is interesting that you feel that his peers should have advised him. Let's try and turn that to the other side. If Mr. Severs had such a situation, shouldn't he have advised his peers? There is obviously an issue, no matter how personal in nature. If Mr. Severs respected his peers, he should be able to confide in them. That simply put, perhaps this entire situation would never have been a problem. Now I believe, the damage that has been done, is permanent. Unfortunately, it may affect future decisions on some very critical items.
You feel the attorney isn't the one to have advised him to excuse himself. If that is the case, why has the attorney advised others on different matters? Or, why did Mr. Severs turn to the attorney in the first place?
You feel that because his peer(s) have created this issue, he should have stayed. Again, had he advised his peers to begin with, it would be a mute point.
But, (and I like your reasoning on this) if there was nothing to hide, he should have voted to have the investigation. I would agree with that statement. That would have shown all, peers and residents, that he was an honorable person with nothing to hide. So, why do you think he voted no?
This is productive discussions. Awaiting your reply to this, then we can move on to the next.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 04:24 am |
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hubahuau wrote on another posting:
"No way would I ever vote for these two. I watched them on tv and they are trying to cause more trouble then anyone ever before. And that includes that Elliot Fisher. All he ever did was tell everybody that every thing in AJ was rotten and how he could do better. Glad people were smart enough to not vote him in. Hope they are smart enough to see that these people are just clones of Elliot."
I'm wondering why if you feel I'm a clone of Fisher would you waist any of your time blogging with me? By your words one could think you hold no respect for him. I was only wondering is all.
If you watched me on TV then you would know the issues I speak of are real issues. Just like any other person who has the right to speak to the council.
I'm not running or recalling to cause trouble. Im doing it to cause change within our local gov. I'm not a clone of anyone.
I want to add I enjoy blogging with you.
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ShannonFlynn
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 04:08 am |
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After they vote on an issue, they go to the next. Right. We as the people they serve can speak at the city meetings and ask for a redo I suppose. I'm not sure if Severs knew that he should ask. One would think that our attorney would council him on such matters. I can see where you are coming from. Though his peers did not ask this of him and I do not think he really thought he needed to leave. Just my thoughts. Would I leave? Know what I know I would say because of the ways things about been dealt with and what has been said by some of his peers I myself would be inclined to stay. I would have voted yes in his shoes. Nothing to hide nothing lost. He did what he thought was right. Do I agree with what and why he did things? Yes and no
From what our city attorney states after the vote happened 2 to 4. The city is indeed no longer financially responsible to investigate. If the voting went the other way then I could see the city responsible. One might want to ask about mediators here in Aj. I know we have at least one.
"Mr. Severs went to the attorney and asked for an interpretation of the law."
I would have done the same thing. Even if I could easily prove I lived in city limits. I would want to educate myself on the law all together. Its my understanding the Severs works out of town and at times out of state. Maybe this is why he asked. Also one might want to think about stating the law at time of defending one living here in Aj.
I feel quite comfortable saying that our city attorney would not find a loop hole for Joe Severs. That is all I will state on that matter.
"In your opinion, why didn't the attorney advise Mr. Severs that he should tell the other members what was going on and bring this sensitive issue out in the open?"
Why would the attorney advise Severs on such a matter? Severs has always stated he lives within law and within city limits. Stating such is making this a non-issue.
In my opinion, one of his peers on council is to blame for this whole mess. This person gave NONE FACT INFORMATION to a local media person. In doing so the media took control and now we have this issue at hand. When I asked this peer why they did not take the info to Joe himself this peer told me, "We don't talk anymore." I did go to the person in question and the person did fess up. This is a shame.
I will not go into details on names and such. You can ask Joe Severs yourself as he knows what happened and will be truthful and giving u the facts.
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hubabuau
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 01:55 pm |
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Let me try and understand your answers, then ask questions, if I may.
a) Because the council voted not to investigate, it should be dropped. What I find interesting is that Mr. Severs did not excuse himself from discussions and most importantly voting on himself. a.1) Do you agree with his actions on this?
b) Someone in town should flip the bill for a court finding. The city and council should be financially responsible for their own personal doings, not the people who live here. b.1) Doesn't the state have free, neutral persons (mediators?) that would be able to sort this out?
c) The attorney says it appears that he lives in town. What I find interesting is that Mr. Severs went to the attorney and asked for an interpretation of the law. As an attorney would do, they find the loop hole for their client, which may or may not be the most ethical way of handling a situation. c.1) In your opinion, why didn't the attorney advise Mr. Severs that he should tell the other members what was going on and bring this sensitive issue out in the open?
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