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zntradefb Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 04:14 pm |
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| are you interested in them if you are ,pls welcome to http://www.zntrade.com
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flyrep Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 04:08 am |
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That is right AJbizowner, some on the council treat citizens and/or
business owners improperly. With respect, you don't need an
MBA or store to figure that one out.
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agreatlife Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 02:34 pm |
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SayItIsntTrue wrote: Perhaps Mr. Severs has has a change of heart. I was at that meeting and viewed the two of them speaking at the end the night. Could it be that Sharon was a fine teacher to Mr. Severs? The student listened and learned?
Are you out of your mind? The only thing that Joe listened to was people screaming that he didn't say the pledge and learned that he is loosing votes. I can't believe you are falling for his bull. He is so full of lies and stuff he doesn't remember what story he tells people. Then he always has a little bit of a different story when he tells it again. Some time listen--REALLY LISTEN to his bull. He don't wear them boots for nothing.
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SayItIsntTrue Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:38 am |
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| Perhaps Mr. Severs has has a change of heart. I was at that meeting and viewed the two of them speaking at the end the night. Could it be that Sharon was a fine teacher to Mr. Severs? The student listened and learned?
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MarkSlate Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 06:34 am |
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It's just in Joe's letter to the editor that he made it sound as if he had ALWAYS felt it should be five minutes. In two years I guess Joe CAN change his mind because NOW he has finally, after almost being in office for almost 2 1/2 years is FINALLY placing his hand over his heart and and is at least appearing to say The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. This was observed at the last council meeting only after Sharon Diehl brought it up at The Call to the Public at the prior meeting.
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SayItIsntTrue Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:50 am |
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| In two years one isnt allowed to change ones mind?
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MarkSlate Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:15 am |
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Joe Severs is NOW saying that he wants the Call to the Public to last 5 minutes but when it came before the Council for a vote, I don't even remember him objecting and if I remember correctly, he voted FOR the change to 3 minutes. I attended that meeting, and I remember that a former councilmember had urged them not to change it. I believe ALL seven of them voted FOR the change. This was back in 2005, before Councilmembers Barker, Serdy and Wilson were on the City Council.
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ajBookchin Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 03:50 am |
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MWW85220 wrote: My only comment about the natural plants is let the locals take the plants before they doze them into pulp. There were some beautiful cactus at the grand hotel that just got dozed under. I would have loved to have a couple of cholla.
I like that idea.
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 03:52 am by ajBookchin
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ajbizowner Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 12:12 am |
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ajBookchin,
I can't speak for Councilman Serdy, but I can tell you part of what led to us putting our business "across the line" in Maricopa County, rather than inside the AJ city limits. It was long-time reputation of notoriously business-UNfriendly and unhelpful AJ employees - from the business license/permit department to planning and zoning and even the fire district. With the current Mayor and Council, I have expectations that this will change. It will take time, though. Meanwhile, AJ's missing out on many businesses that could or would come to AJ, but won't, because of that "unfriendly to business" reputation.
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 12:15 am by ajbizowner
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MWW85220 Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 11:44 pm |
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| My only comment about the natural plants is let the locals take the plants before they doze them into pulp. There were some beautiful cactus at the grand hotel that just got dozed under. I would have loved to have a couple of cholla.
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ajBookchin Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 02:01 am |
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ajbizowner wrote:
AJ has not been very business friendly in the past. There are a lot of petty laws that need to be gotten rid of IMO. With more business people on the council, I hope the business atmosphere changes.
I haven't been here a real long time, but I agree about petty laws and some not so petty laws - I was opposed to the ordinances regarding natural vegetation. I'm all for saving the environment and sustainability, but we need to ensure the economic sustainability of our community first. I still argue that we should focus on saving large areas of natural vegetation such as the BLM land consisting of the Sheep Drive Trail - not so much the occasional cactus within proposed development projects. Our goal should be protecting a complete environment, not individual plants.
And yes, council members like Mr. Serdy should consistently evaluate ordinances based on what decisions would encourage him to relocate his own business within our municipal borders.
ajbizowner wrote: IMO anything that helps AJ grow into a better town should be encouraged.
I agree - near term, just about any additional retail will help considering that for the most part, if you can't buy a particular thing at Walmart - you can't buy it in Apache Junction.
Where else can you go for home electronics, small appliances, camping equipment and related stuff, clothing, shoes, housewares,... so we end up buying a lot of this stuff elsewhere, funding someone else's government - usually Mesa. (Just typing it makes me nauseous.)
Bring in these type of retailers and we're guaranteed to raise sales tax revenue in the near term without any improvements in disposable income - for this reason alone, the Apache Junction Gateway project will be a great benefit to our community.
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ajbizowner Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 06:17 pm |
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AJ has not been very business friendly in the past. There are a lot of petty laws that need to be gotten rid of IMO. With more business people on the council, I hope the business atmosphere changes.
Education is ALWAYS the way to elevate people and thus tax revenue but the influx of business has a more immediate effect.
We agree but have a slightly different way of looking at things. IMO anything that helps AJ grow into a better town should be encouraged.
Last edited on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 06:18 pm by ajbizowner
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ajBookchin Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 05:30 pm |
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MWW85220 wrote:
FYI, AJ pays its bills with sales taxes from business!!
Actually, Apache Junction pays its bills with sales taxes collected by businesses from citizens and visitors.
MWW85220 wrote:
The only way to get more money into the city government is to raise taxes or attract more business.
No, these are not the only ways.
The surest means to attract more retail opportunities are to encourage the citizens of Apache Junction to improve their income level through new employment and educational opportunities. If the availability of disposable income in our community increased, we would see much greater interest by developers and retailers, resulting in more retail opportunities, resulting in higher sales tax receipts.
Additionally, increasing the population density of these citizens with higher levels of disposable income around our core retail corridors would further motivate developers and retailers to consider investing in our community.
MWW85220 wrote:
If we continue with the b*tch sessions at the start of the council meetings, AJ will never attract new business.
Unfortunately, I believe our demographics and existing zoning/planning do us much more harm than our "b*tch sessions" - if investors knew they could make money here, they would likely sit through any inconvenience.
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CouncilmemberSerdy Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 05:00 am |
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The time limit seems to have settled over the years to 3 minutes. I hear it used to be 5. This most certainly would be too long and could lead to long winded fillibustering. One more minute to 4? The number of speakers seems to fluctuate between 10 and 20 so you would be adding 10 to 20 minutes to the overall meeting. When I brought forth the issue of the destruction of the city's firearms I ran out of time at 3 minutes but I still was able to get my point accross.
I find many of the speakers quite interesting but some seem to drag on and on. Case in point would be the evangelists from Gilbert [God bless them] that used to be a weekly fixture at the meetings. After 2 or 3 of them it really became redundant.
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MWW85220 Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 04:10 pm |
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flyrep wrote: 85220
So this is to protect the sensitive ears of prospective business people? Is this a caste system of sorts? So people like you and some members on the council are friends of business?
Its a private property issue and some in the council ought to show more
respect for the property owners they serve.
Steve Flynn
FYI, AJ pays its bills with sales taxes from business!! We, like all governments are having financial shortfalls. The only way to get more money into the city government is to raise taxes or attract more business. Are you suggesting that you are willing to pay higher property taxes?
If we continue with the b*tch sessions at the start of the council meetings, AJ will never attract new business.
CASTE SYSTEM? Are you suggesting the resurrection of the Avenging Angels?
Last edited on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 05:47 pm by MWW85220
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hubabuau Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 03:14 pm |
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Councilmember Serdy, thanks for taking the time to respond and provide your comments. And suggesting that the work sessions be televised is great. I can follow the discussions on issues, because I understand what has been previously said.
It seems to be an acceptable change to move the call to the public to the latter part of the meeting. Most meeting agendas have public comments as the last item, which promotes and fosters that the business at hand is conducted fairly and swiftly. Also, most items that are discussed have a time slot for public comments, so that council has an opportunity to hear what the community feels.
If this change occurs, however, I might be inclined to leave the 3 minute time limit for now and review the length as a followup, say in 9 months. Then you will accurately identify whether or not people should be given more time. My opinion.
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flyrep Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 04:35 am |
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85220
So this is to protect the sensitive ears of prospective business people? Is this a caste system of sorts? So people like you and some members on the council are friends of business? I am not so sure that I would agree with that. I saw at least one council member give a sign maker a huge headache over Carl Jr's proposal to have
a sign that was to be about 80 feet or so. One of them wanted the Carl's Jr. gold star to be in a box for the sign instead of just the star being alone. I cannot believe that they had to ask permission for any of that. I saw no nuisance or hazard in the
proposed sign.
Its a private property issue and some in the council ought to show more
respect for the property owners they serve.
Councilman Serdy,
Maybe you could tell me if perhaps four minutes would be a more appropriate
time limit? Thanks.
Steve Flynn
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ajBookchin Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 03:22 am |
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ajbizowner wrote: I'm glad you see what I mean!
Another way to learn how things work in the city/government is to take AJ's Citizen Leadership Institute. It's easy to sit on the outside and say, "This needs to be 'fixed'." or "That's not the way *I* think it should be done.", but in government issues and procedures, the "obvious" or "simple" solution isn't always possible.
Maybe not "simple" or "obvious", but we might try "creative" every now and then.
Take the women who's carport was determined to be in violation of setback ordinances after she purchased the home with the existing carport. If her immediate neighbor is not offended by the discrepancy, would any of us being outraged if code compliance purchased a new yard stick and shaved a few inches off the end???
This would be a much better solution (imho) than revising ordinances for a single case or drafting new charter.
[edit: OK, I really wouldn't want our government operating this way, but we do need to find a better solution to help people work through the correct legal process. And then we need citizens on the Board of Adjustments capable of evaluating the merits of individual cases to weigh property rights against the good of the community as represented by existing ordinances.]
I do agree that the Leadership Institute is a valuable experience, having been a participant myself in the past.
Last edited on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 03:35 am by ajBookchin
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CouncilmemberSerdy Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 03:15 am |
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In response to Mrs. Flynn. As of now I'm split 50/50. Having been a long time Little League board member I will point out that they also conducted business first and the public had to wait at teir board meetings.
When I introduced the measure and it was approved to have the work sessions recorded and televised it was so that the public could witness how we arrived at decisions. The meetings "do" belong to the public and I wanted there to be transparency in what we do.
So far everyone is making valid points.
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MWW85220 Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 09:09 pm |
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FLYNN
It is not a matter of dreading the call to the public. It is more a matter of NOT having prospective businesses or developers seeing and hearing the childish bickerings of a few spoiled brats that didn't get their way.
Prospective businesses want to see a reasonable ordered meeting. They also want to evaluate our "messed up schools' as one of our elected officials and your friend put it! THIS COMMENT ALONE has caused more damage to AJ that anything the steam team has done.
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ajbizowner Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 09:05 pm |
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ajBookchin wrote: ajbizowner,
The Parks and Recreation Commission places Call to the Public at the end of the meeting; I always believe this discourages the public from providing input.
My preference would be to conduct the business of the citizens first and then the business of the commission.
Of course, if the council moved Call to the Public to the end of their meeting, more citizens might experience the "whole" legislative process which might be beneficial to the citizens and community. Maybe more citizens would voice their opinion on other issues that are on the agenda rather than just using their three minutes early and leaving.
Hmmm.... there might be some merit to this idea after all!!!
I'm glad you see what I mean!
Another way to learn how things work in the city/government is to take AJ's Citizen Leadership Institute. It's easy to sit on the outside and say, "This needs to be 'fixed'." or "That's not the way *I* think it should be done.", but in government issues and procedures, the "obvious" or "simple" solution isn't always possible.
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MWW85220 Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 08:52 pm |
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agreatlife
The people you are replying to don't believe in spelling or grammar or even using the correct word. If it sounds close or it looks close to anything known by 'Funk & Wagnalls' they tend to use it. There are a number of us that have tried to help them by pointing out their short comings but to no avail.
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agreatlife Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 08:30 pm |
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| What does it mean there is more dissent to come when warrented. Is that old chief guy getting warrents on people who sign the recall on Joe. Bring it on buddy. You don't scare me. What a bunch of ignorant jerks. Taking out warrents on people. The jail isn't that big dummy.
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flyrep Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 08:01 pm |
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hububuaua,
Perhaps you are right. I do agree with Councilman Severs that it should
be a five minute limit although I am used to three.
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ajBookchin Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 04:37 pm |
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hubabuau,
Ya, the more I consider this change, the more I like the concept of Call to the Public being shifted to the end of council meetings.
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hubabuau Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 03:10 pm |
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ajbookchin, that is precisely the point. If people really understood what the council and staff are doing, they might have a fresh perspective on the ordinances and issues at hand. Instead of sitting through endless time, it would encourage people to speak about the item as it comes up for discussion and allow the council to hear their approval and/or concerns before they vote. Then if that person was only there for that item, they could leave or stay for another item. Personally, I find it frustrating to watch the meetings and have to view an hour or more to get to the items that need to be discussed. My opinion.
flyrep, I don't think this change in time has anything to do with what you are saying. It maybe a simple streamlining of the government in process. And just think about this, if you will. If the call to the public was moved to the end of the meetings, then they might give each speaker a little bit more time to speak. And, maybe the council will be more attentive, because the business at hand is complete and they can give their undivided attention to each speaker. My opinion.
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ajBookchin Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 07:06 am |
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ajbizowner,
The Parks and Recreation Commission places Call to the Public at the end of the meeting; I always believe this discourages the public from providing input.
My preference would be to conduct the business of the citizens first and then the business of the commission.
Of course, if the council moved Call to the Public to the end of their meeting, more citizens might experience the "whole" legislative process which might be beneficial to the citizens and community. Maybe more citizens would voice their opinion on other issues that are on the agenda rather than just using their three minutes early and leaving.
Hmmm.... there might be some merit to this idea after all!!!
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flyrep Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 05:58 am |
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That's right Greatlife this is great. And it is not just about Glenn Walp. There is
more dissent to come when warranted.
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flyrep Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 05:56 am |
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Hey AJBizowner,
Too bad for you that we are not a democracy like Ancient Athens. You could
start a recall petition for me to be ostracized from AJ for ten years. If the
majority of the council votes to change
the call to the public until the end of the meetings, I am sure that it will not decrease
the number of citizens that speak if that is what they really want to do. I will
continue to bring documented facts to the discussion along with my opinions.
I see this as a sign of some of them dreading call to the public. I could be
persuaded otherwise, perhaps. If I am correct, I wonder why they would want
to put it off until later? Do they wish to discourage it by having later at night?
I can talk and leave early or come late and take my turn. Or I can just make myself
at home for the entire meeting. You mentioned having a spokesperson for each
topic. Did you mean that it should be done for call to the public only or
for any and all items on the agenda? Either way, it is a bad
idea as everyone deserves a chance to speak.
The council should not be exempt from more than one opposing speech.
They shouldn't be shielded from dissent either. They need to hear it
just as they hear support. Should there be a limit on the supporters who
take their three minutes to say that they think that the council is doing
great?
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agreatlife Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 02:33 am |
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| Hey are you the girl that wants the old chief back? Get a life. You and your funny friends need to get over that one. No way in hell you and them others are getting elected. I like this. I can say what I really feel. yeeehaaaaaw
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ShannonFlynn Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 11:44 pm |
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| Council member Serdy what are your thoughts on putting "call to the public" at the end of the meetings?
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CouncilmemberSerdy Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 11:03 pm |
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| This is Council member Serdy. It is no rumor that I talked to an editor from a newspaper. I give interviews several times a week. Most times the content is nothing the paper can use and it never gets into print. I also speak with many citizens through out the week, listening to their problems and concerns. Unless they take too much of my time while I am at work I greatly enjoy this and it helps me to make decisions. I am very approachable and reachable since my business is very close to the city and look forward to hearing from citizens when an issue comes up.
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ajbizowner Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 06:30 pm |
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ajbookchin, et al,
The issue of moving the call to the public to the end of the council meetings is hardly new. I've attended council meetings for years and rarely speak at call to the public. I think that moving this portion to the end of the meeting would help in many ways. It would allow council to get the business of the meetings - presentations, zoning requests, etc. - out of the way before getting bogged down with the sometimes lengthy call to the public session, which is happening more and more frequently.
One of the things I've noticed with recent council meetings is that although it's expected that a group of people who are planning to speak on the same issue are supposed to select a SINGLE person to represent ALL of them. This has not happened - it was VERY obvious when the commotion over not renewing Chief Walp's contract started. SOMETIMES (rarely) it's a coincidence when several people speak on the same topic, other times (as with the Chief Walp issue), it's a very obviously orchestrated and poorly disguised attempt to monopolize the call to the public.
As was mentioned, if call to public was moved to the end of the meeting, guests (which could be as diverse as officials from other cities or towns, presenters, petitioners, developers, corporate representatives and more) would be able to conduct their business and would most likely be gone before the call to the public.
Second, there have been issues that have come up at council meetings AFTER the call to the public. When this has happened, I probably WOULD have addressed the council IF call to the public had been at the end of the meeting.
Methinks the local papers would have far fewer reporters/articles/pages if they would stick to facts rather than reporting every rumor as if it were fact, cooking up imagined "conspiracies" and misdeeds to cause further dissent in town.
hey flyrep!
Rumor has it that there are metal munching mice on the moon. Rumor has it that the Fountain of Youth is located in the same place as the Lost Dutchman Mine. Rumor has it that Apache Junction is a nice town and the residents are tired of the constant uproar caused by certain people who choose to believe rumors.
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hubabuau Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 02:10 pm |
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SayItIsntTrue wrote: Rumor has it that Councilman Jeff Serdy and a local news paper owner held a phone conversation talking about adding call to the public to the end of each Tuesday night meeting.
Very wrong indeed, it shows they fear the people they serve and their opinions.
Rumors, don't you love it. This is exactly how and why people in this town get worked up into a frenzy. Has anyone inquired as to why this is an article? Has someone from the city asked that this be done? Maybe some of the people that want to conduct business at the meetings have asked city employees to see if they could change the time slots so they can get in and get out and not have to sit through an hour or more of complaints. Don't know about anyone else, but I wish I had a fast forward for some of the speakers at the meetings on my tv!
And I don't think this is any type of fear from any one. Simply, a more conducive way of conducting city business. As I said before, why do we have to air our dirty laundry in front of guests at our meeting? If it continues, perhaps developers might not want to come here and then who will be blamed? The council or those that can't wait to speak?
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SayItIsntTrue Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 07:11 am |
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Rumor has it that Councilman Jeff Serdy and a local news paper owner held a phone conversation talking about adding call to the public to the end of each Tuesday night meeting.
Very wrong indeed, it shows they fear the people they serve and their opinions.
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ajBookchin Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 06:34 am |
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Moving Call to the Public to the end of the meeting may benefit staff and petitioners, but it would negatively impact public input - I do not attend AJUSD school board meetings to speak because the placement of their call to the public can sometimes require speakers to wait a long time into a meeting.
Hopefully this proves to be nothing more than a rumor.
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hubabuau Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 03:16 am |
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The school board conducts business first and allows the public to speak last and it is very conducive to the working environment.
It seems that when I watch the meetings, some of the people in the audience are city employees, developers and/or their representatives and people who are there for small things, waiting to discuss real issues that are brought before the council. Sometimes they must wait an hour or more to present their item, because there are so many people that speak at the call to the public. It seems unfair to have these people wait. Also, there has been a lot of unfavorable speakers and statements that pollute the air, if you will.
I believe every one should have their say, but it might be a good idea if those that want to speak their mind, allow everyone to conduct business first then they can bring out the dirty laundry. If this was moved to the end of the meeting, increasing the time limit to 5 minutes would be a good thing. It would give everyone a chance to say what they want.
If it stays where it is, I think the time should be reduced, say to 1.5 minutes, so that everyone can get on with their business.
Just my opinions.
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MWW85220 Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 02:25 am |
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Why does this REPORTER ask Noel Benoist ANYTHING? Go to
http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies.htm
and see what he really is!
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AJ Editor Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 02:09 am |
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Public comment may have to wait
By Terrance Thornton
Independent Newspapers
No one knows who said it, but city officials confirm they have heard rumors in passing that the city council meeting format may or may not be up for an adjustment.
Time set aside for public comment during every city council meeting has been, since its conception, slotted at the beginning of meetings.
But now elected officials are considering moving the time to the end of the meeting.
Apache Junction Councilman Jeff Serdy says he doesn’t know when, but the topic may be up for discussion in the near future.
"I have heard rumors of that, yes," he said. "I don’t know, I think we are going to be discussing that."
As of press time Friday, the topic has not been put on any future council agenda, but Councilman Chip Wilson says he, too, has heard the discussion in passing.
"I heard about it yesterday, but no, we have not discussed it," he pointed out after the March 31 work session.
Mr. Wilson says he is happy with the current time slot reserved for public input.
"I encourage (public comment). This is an opportunity for people to officially speak out," the councilman explained. "Why is it that we are going to move the ‘call to the public’ to the end of the meeting?"
Councilman Wilson says moving the time slot would be something that is not necessary.
"I don’t know what the goal is," he said. "They are going to have to sell me on it."
One councilman says elected officials are required to stay to the end of meetings to "handle business," but citizens should not be forced to stay late into the night to voice their opinion.
"They (residents) are the ones who need to come in and talk to us and leave if they have to," said Councilman Joseph Severs.
"Why in the world would we change that?" he asked.
Mr. Severs would also like to see the amount of time offered to residents during "call to the public" extended to five minutes.
"I was happy with the five minutes and when it was reduced to the three minutes I was not for it," he said. "I think that it should go back to the five minutes and be kept at the front of the meetings."
Mr. Severs says he notices citizens coming to the podium are nervous and have a hard time saying what they want to say in the allotted three-minute time frame.
"A lot of people have very important issues and when they come to us they are nervous because they don’t have a lot of experience with public speaking," he said.
Apache Junction resident Noel Benoist says if "call to the public" was shifted to the end of the meeting it would "circumvent" public opinion.
"I think it is extremely important for the time to be at the front," he said. "If they move it to the end they will only get public reaction."
A common fixture during city council meetings, Mr. Benoist says public opinion is important to the process of ensuring a "proactive" local government.
"We have to do all we can to prevent problems rather than being reactive," he said. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
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