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> Arizona Public Forums > Apache Junction Public Issues Forum > Standing Room Only: Horse-boarding P&Z forum fills chambers

Standing Room Only: Horse-boarding P&Z forum fills chambers
 
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Ed Dison
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 Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 05:13 pm
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AJ Editor wrote:



Standing Room Only: Horse-boarding P&Z forum fills chambers





Light opposition voiced by residents





By Terrance Thornton





Independent Newspapers





The meeting room was filled to the brim Tuesday, Jan. 13 during a public hearing on proposed horse-boarding regulations hosted by the Planning and Zoning Commission.



Among the list of the 12 proposals, trailer uses, caretaker and camping regulations were the majority of topics discussed during the public hearing.



Although little opposition was voiced by attendees — who were either horse boarders themselves or self-proclaimed horse lovers — on the proposed regulations, several bits of input were brought up by about 20 people who choose to speak publicly on the matter.



According to Rudy Esquivias, city of Apache Junction senior planner, different perspectives on the proposals is exactly what are needed.



Mr. Esquivias presented the proposed regulations to the P&Z commission during the Jan. 13 public hearing in Apache Junction City Council Chambers.



All the seats were filled and local residents sat in chairs outside the ddor or stood outside the chambers to listen in.



"The purpose of this meeting is mainly to allow for public comment on this issue," he prefaced his presentation to the commission, adding, "we plan to start drafting ordinance language."



Mr. Esquivias said in a Jan. 14 phone interview development services staff expect to submit the proposed regulations in ordinance form to the P&Z commission at its Feb. 10 work session.



The proposed ordinance could be up for a recommendation to city council by the P&Z commission as soon as Feb. 24, Mr. Esquivias said.



The P&Z commission can only provide Apache Junction City Council with a recommendation, which is gained through a public vote. City council will have the final say in the matter, city code states.



If everything goes according to plan, Mr. Esquivias said this matter could be before city council in early March.




Public comment



Apache Junction residents, winter visitors and representatives of the horse community were on-hand last week to offer input on the regulations and the hard work that went into the creation of the proposals.



Winter visitor Mardi Devolites expressed her approval for the joint effort between city staff and the Apache Junction horse community.



"I have followed the developments of the horse-boarding regulations and they have all been terrific," she said during the public hearing. "I want to support the staff for doing everything they have done."



While she says she supports the proposed regulations as is, she is worrisome of those who do not fit the legal definition of a horse-boarding facility, but still offer the service within city limits.



The legal definition of a legal horse-boarding facility is simply one that stands on at least 2.5 acres of land, current city code states.



"I would like to see a crackdown on the illegal boarding facilities within town," she told the commission.



Apache Junction resident Debra Weller says her main concern is for the well-being of the horses and said proposed regulations do not address any facility inspections.



"We want the best for the horses and the best for Apache Junction," she told the commission. "There (are) no provisions at all for any inspections for horse-boarding facilities. I don’t have a problem ... I just want to see that the horses are well taken care of."



Beverly Hansen, Superstition Stables owner, talked about the importance of the new horse-trailer provision included in the proposed regulations.



"This is highly desired by our winter visitors," she said of the need for horse trailers at horse-boarding facilities. "People that board horses want trailers as close to where the horses are boarded."



The proposed regulations would allow for one horse trailer per horse boarded, Ms. Hansen said.



"Horse trailers are a must," she explained to the commission. "Horse trailers and horses go together."



Superstition Horsemen’s Association President Ed Dison explained to the commission of how important the horse community is to the local economy.



"This lifestyle is a major attraction to this area," he said of the western heritage that often lures part-time residents to Apache Junction. "This is a major business and it is in our backyard."



Apache Junction resident Dana Jordan said while he appreciates the western heritage and believes the city ought to continue its favorable relationship with the horse community, he had some concerns.



"You have to make sure the lighting doesn’t go onto others’ property," he said of his concerns. "Rules are made for common sense."



Mr. Jordan said his five-acre plot of land is adversely affected by a horse stable that is adjacent to his home.



"Their choices are adversely affecting my quality of life," he said of common nuisances such as odor and flies. "There are two sides to every coin."



Apache Junction resident Eric Messina — who is a member of SHA — says when it comes to establishing horse-boarding regulations the city of Apache Junction should set the tone for Pinal County as a whole.



"It is not an easy job, but we choose to do this because we love horses," he said of the strong ties that exist between city residents and Apache Junction’s western heritage. "Apache Junction should lead, not follow."



P&Z comments



Following the roughly 60 minutes of public comment on the issue, P&Z commission members offered their interpretation of the proposed regulations, what the next step is and what they think ought to be altered.



Pat Richmond, P&Z commission member, said a couple of the proposed regulations such as hours of operation, trailer uses and camping regulations could become problematic.



Ms. Richmond also expressed a desire to find a way to punish those who are not following current city code regarding acreage of a legal horse-boarding facility.



"I wish there was a way to punish the ones not doing it the right way," she said of her concerns. "But this leaves too many doors open ... too many loop holes some people are going to sneak through."



Theresa Nesser, P&Z commission member, said she is dedicated to preserving the western heritage cherished by Apache Junction residents as long as she is a part of city government.



P&Z Commissioner Joe Durbala agrees that the city of Apache Junction ought to lead the way when it comes to establishing city horse-boarding regulations in Pinal County.



"It is well overdue," he said of establishing the horse-boarding ordinances. "Why are we not looking to the county on these ordinances?"



Charles Bunten, P&Z commission vice chairman, says he would like to take a look at what language is used in ordinances other communities throughout the state use for horse-boarding regulations.



"Many of these areas probably have ordinances," he said of communities such as Chandler, Gilbert and Scottsdale. "We should have a guide to know what the rest of the world is doing before we head off on a mule when we should be heading off on a horse."



Mr. Bunten says he wants to get this done right the first time.



"I know what I am talking about when it comes to horses," he said of his experience breeding race horses. "We need to do it first and we need to do it right."



Sue Johns, P&Z commissioner, says the horse community is an intricate part of the identity of the city of Apache Junction.



"We need the horse community — it brings a lot of our charm," she explained.




Registered members are encouraged to comment on this topic by clicking “reply” in the upper right corner of this entry. Comments posted online may be used in an upcoming edition of the Apache Junction/Gold Canyon Independent. For more news, visit http://circulation.newszap.com to purchase an e-Subscription. As an e-Subscriber, you will be able to view the actual newspaper pages online, including every story, feature, advertisement and photo.




The Apache Junction Planning and Zoning Commission listens to public comment during the Jan. 13 public hearing on proposed horse-boarding regulations.


Ed Dison
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 Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 09:45 am
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AJlandOwnerSINCE1958 wrote: ""I'm thinking maybe you should come clean and let everyone know you don't actually live in A.J..And that maybe you aren't as affected as you let on..... ''

Please     check the voting rolls, land deed and the reg. to my car, then please call me a liar again tomorrow and the next day. Thanks.

 You all seem very thin skinned about This topic for someone that don't have a guilty conscience about your impact on your neighbors.



AJlandownerSINCE1958, so how is Mesa these days? Are the flies from your parent's garbage trailer bothering you over there to the west? Next time you VISIT your parent's  for the weekend bar-b-que, have them move that trailer farther away from their house, say to MESA, the neighbors down the street have finally figured out that the flies are originating from your parent's, not any of the stables in the area, this is complete with pictures of the cute, little black trailer, and all the flies. Curious here, how old are you? Does the 1958 stand for your date of birth? Was property so inexpensive then that an 8 month old could afford to buy some?

Ed Dison

Last edited on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 03:41 pm by Ed Dison

Mardi Devolites
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 Posted: Sat Mar 28th, 2009 07:03 pm
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I was misquoted about cracking down on illegal horse boarding in Apache Junction and just wanted to clear that up. What I told the P&Z Commission was that before they crack down on illegal boarding in AJ, they need to think about the number of horses which might be put out on the street. The legal boarding facilities in town are usually full, and there is nowhere for those backyard horses to go.

My recommendation was that the City take a look at allowing some limited boarding (one or two horses) on smaller properties. The Commission's response was that it was an issue separate from the one at hand and would require it's own proposal and public support.

The reason I am so supportive of the city's proposed boarding regulations is because, as a horse trainer, I understand the value of having regulations to PROTECT horse owners and boarding stable owners. Short of clear cases of abuse and neglect, the people who usually complain about horse properties in AJ are people who dislike horses. It was clear to me the purpose of the proposed regulations was to help the horse owner, not the horse hater.

I got to know AJ City Development Department staff while I was exploring establishing a new boarding facility in AJ. I am very appreciative of the help they gave me in evaluating a particularly difficult piece of property in town. My experience with AJ City is a very positive one. We have some of the best riding trails in the state, and I am glad that the city is making an effort to be pro-horse, despite the problems horses can cause in a community. Horses offer us much more than most people realize. Just their companionship can be beneficial to the human spirit.

J&JFarms
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 Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 08:56 am
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So I too am a bit late here, but I have some questions and comments, most importantly to ajbizowner...

I'm know the unregulated, illegal boarding operations are operating, but why is additional regulation of legal facilities necessary when the existing regulations are of little consequence to control the illegal ones?  Furthermore, why are we so fired up to overly regulate so many businesses that are providing a safe and necessary service? 

How many documented, or even anecdotal, cases of neglected horses at boarding facilities in AJ are you aware of?  Subsequent question: what gives the ACC the knowledge or authority to rule upon the conditions that qualify as such?  Shouldn't a veterinarian be required to make said determination? 

I resent the implication that folks that don't have horse property and must board their horses are ignorant to the proper care and health of a horse.  It is almost as though you think that the majority of boarders saw Black Stallion, thought it would be cool to own a horse, bought one, then shipped them off to horsey day-care.  Owning horses is an unbelievably expensive lifestyle.   I find it laughable that you find the rest of the public to be so woefully incompetent that they can't even recognize basic the healthy status of their animals. 

With all due respect let me lay out a scenario for you. 

Let's say you want a horse, but you live in a neighborhood that isn't horse property. Let's further say that the property has an HOA that prevents the storage of a horse trailer on your own property.  Too bad right?  Move to horse property or a neighborhood that doesn't have an HOA, right?  There are very few properties that are not bound by HOAs or CC&Rs, even fewer that are horse properties.  To make the leap to suggest that folks in this category don't have the knowledge of animal husbandry, or the skills to properly care for a horse is ludicrous. 

Enter a boarding facility.  They offer a safe environment to board your horse, keep your tack, your trailer, and in most cases they will care for your animal if you are sick, out of town, or working late.  When the vet comes to visit most boarders can spread the cost of the out-call amongst them, not to mention training and farrier services.  Most boarding facilities have round pens and arenas, and something you can't get at home by yourself: the kinship of your fellow horseman and boarders. 

I understand your fears about 20 or more super long horse trailers, one for each horse, but reality simply doesn't support your fears.  None of the 15 facilities have anywhere near 1 trailer per horse.  Moreover, few of the trailers are the long "Semi" type of which you suggest.  Most are 1-2 horse trailers with a small tack areas. 

The question about parking is more of a fire control issue and less of a parking issue.  If the fire department can navigate around the facility then the issue is moot. 

Furthermore, I fail to see how you make the leap to paid overnight camping vs. on-site staff.  These boarding facilities are just that, if they allow folks to stay overnight it is not the same as an open to the public campground.  Each Boarding facility has a lease agreement with their tenants.  They reserve the right to refuse to allow anyone on their property at anytime.  Drive-ins are not welcome, nor is it required that their fees be posted.   Just like renting your home, they are renting a stable on their property to horse owners. 

I'm sorry that your brother in-law couldn't stay in a trailer at your place.  Perhaps your neighbors won't give you the latitude to let him stay in a camper, or that you don't have sufficient room inside your home.  I'm not sure if I'd rat you out to the AJ goon squad, but then again if you're nit picking me about my old truck, I might. 

The issue with the stable owners, the horse public, and the general public at large is that AJ is incrementally changing the tone and feeling of town in favor of the sanitized old-west.  One filled with photos of horses, cowboys and Indians.  The council routinely overlooks the true areas of blight instead to focus on the small amounts of lost tax revenues and over regulations.  Businesses outside of the redevelopment area or south of the 60 are ignored, in some cases forced to suffer, just because it doesn't fit the concept of the new AJ. 

This isn't just about horses or boarding facilities.  It is about property rights and the incremental erosions of our freedom, our liberties, and our lifestyle. 

While you may not know the difference between Zea mays indentata and Zea mays rugosa I would never suggest that we regulate your ability to cultivate either. 

Anyone who isn't willing to stand up and fight for their rights deserves to lose them. 

 

J&JFarms
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 Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 07:41 am
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cacomistle,

Praytell, what is wrong with 50 horses on 5 Acres? 

Besides the number itself, can you quantify the spatial relationship issues or the sub-standard facility features of which you imply are present?

Christa_Rizzi
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 Posted: Wed Feb 25th, 2009 05:19 am
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:cool:

johnnyk597
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:D

buckskin girl
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 Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 08:28 pm
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I really don't see a problem with 50 horses on 5 acres. And not condoning standing in muck for days but as a horse owner I know that even the best kept stalls can get ugly when we get rain. As long as the stable is cleaning their stalls regularly and stays on top of stall maintenace then a horse shouldn't be standing in muck for very long.

cacomistle
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 Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 04:49 pm
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landowner + buckskin,

One stable has 50+ horses on 5 acres. Another had horses standing in muck and mud for days after the last rain we had. If these are good stables, I don't want to see the bad ones.

buckskin girl
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 Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 10:36 pm
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land owner

Just curious, where are there 50 horses on 2.5 acres?

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Flytrap

It is also noted he is not a law abiding citizen .Take a look at all the court appearance and the numerous tickets he has received.You have to be able to follow the laws to help run the city.And to you're other question,public record and observation.And we all know you're little group for dishonest government know all about public records now do'nt we.

flyrep
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 Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2009 12:40 am
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Like I'm going to vote for Insalco.   Tattletail, you probably would have loved

being a member of Unit 731.    It is curious how you  know who needs meds and

why.

tattletail
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 Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 11:59 pm
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flytrap

I'm sure you already know that fish is not all there.If he's not on meds he should be .It is well documented that he is one of our town loonies.Why would you try to deceive the people of apache junction into thinking this mans mentally stable when you know perfectly well he's not.Do you really want fish as our mayor?Do you people  care anything about our city?

 

Last edited on Sun Feb 1st, 2009 12:04 am by

flyrep
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 Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 05:09 pm
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That flag says it all landowner.   Now Dr. Dog Mengele wants the council's

opposition to be on meds.      You'd like that wouldn't you dog?   That is

a classic Stalinist ploy.  If your critics disagree with the government and

it's lickspittles, then they must be insane.  How convenient.

Fisher 2009
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 Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 09:25 am
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I Think you must have a fingerprint clearence card to post on this site!!!

EF:D

Festus
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 05:04 pm
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landowner

Must have confused you with someone else who was telling the gentleman in the black cowboy hat athe meeting that it was actually his parents place and he lived in Mesa...............My Bad!

ajwatchdog2008
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Ajbookchin, it's obvious that Elliott is off his meds again.

ajBookchin
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 01:55 pm
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Why would there be a toll road or any highway on the north side of Apache Junction??? What would be the destination of this highway??? How would it be integrated with the existing freeway system???

This doesn't sound too plausible.


Fisher 2009
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 12:35 pm
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Why would people want horses in Pinal County ? Pinal County has plans for TOLL ROADS!!! I think it is planned for the North side of Apache Junction. Call the Pinal Partnership or CAAG. Got to have progress!!! Well I guess you can glue a transponder to the horses rear end.LOL

EF

johnnyk597
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 09:26 am
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:dude:

AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 05:18 am
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sorry, I  forgot the /s for sarcasm,

 what is reasonable? That is why I  went to the P&Z meeting, so a reasonable balance can be reached.

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Last edited on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 06:00 am by AJlandOwnerSINCE1958

ajBookchin
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 05:10 am
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AJlandOwner...

ummm...

If you are expecting the waste from the horses to be removed that quickly... I would argue that your expectations are unrealistic and unreasonable.


AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 04:48 am
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""AJlandOwner, how quickly do you believe the waste should be removed???""

how quickly do you flush after #2? couldn't resist.

AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 04:43 am
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""I'm thinking maybe you should come clean and let everyone know you don't actually live in A.J..And that maybe you aren't as affected as you let on..... ''

Please     check the voting rolls, land deed and the reg. to my car, then please call me a liar again tomorrow and the next day. Thanks.

 You all seem very thin skinned about This topic for someone that don't have a guilty conscience about your impact on your neighbors.

AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 04:31 am
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""I see horses all the time, on my way to the market, driving down Apache Trail, at Circle K and even in""

I was referring to the 70' and 80'

buckskin girl
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 04:18 am
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AJlandOwnerSINCE1958 wrote: ''  Funny, I remember a few years back that a horse was seen in the vicinity once a year, and at the LDDs parade.



 

Are you sure you are an Apache Junction resident? I see horses all the time, on my way to the market, driving down Apache Trail, at Circle K and even in the drive through at Burger King. Have you been to Filly's or Mammoth and looked out at the hitching rails. You must have blinders on because on any given day you see horses being ridden all around town and that has not just happened in the last few years.

 

 

ajBookchin
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 04:14 am
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AJlandOwner, how quickly do you believe the waste should be removed???


Festus
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 03:41 am
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I don't see where anyone said you called out a single facility. My ? to you would be have you had conversation with the facility near you I'm thinking NO. And do you have any others within 1/4 mile. Flies are known to go that far. It would appear that you are feeling singled out for your opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion because it's theirs.But once again I have to go back and ask have spoken with your neighbors to let them know what you think? My guess is NO!!!!!! Dana I'm thinking maybe you should come clean and let everyone know you don't actually live in A.J..And that maybe you aren't as affected as you let on..... 

AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 12:16 am
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""I would say that if a person waits 5yrs to raise a concern and only after it shows up in the public forum and not talking to the neighbor to address your concerns 1st, SHAME ON YOU!!""

You would say that , I would not. To each his own. No one ever singled out any one horse property at the P&Z meeting.

I made a comment about what I see. How this affects ME, that perspective was lost, and not displayed at the meeting, You have to agree it was a very one sided discussion.

Why shame on me?

AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 12:06 am
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""what criteria are you using when you state that 50 horses on 2 1/2 acres is too many???""

OK, I will bite, I know what I see, I know what I smell,

I know that according to the land owner , He stated " He and his family maintained the horse stalls". If the 50+ horses are maintained properly, then I would not smell as much, or see as many flies. If ONE PERSON + FAMILY  can't clean up the waste quick enough to keep it clean,

 THEN  that number of animals is too much, 5 or 50 or 500.

The problem is, this is like smoking, you feel you can smoke anywhere you want (at one time you could, remember?)and that everyone else has the problem. But now there are towns in CA that ban smoking in your own house.

IF the horse community control themselves, it won't get to a total ban.

THAT, no one want, including ME.

 but if "IT" continues to be a problem, then more people will complain, then the city will crack down, then the county will regulate something, then FEDERAL studies about health concerns, etc,etc.

 You  get the picture?

No one whats that!! including ME.
Be Nice to your neighbors.

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Last edited on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 01:16 am by AJlandOwnerSINCE1958

Festus
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2009 08:04 pm
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Funny thing about neighbors we also have 1, thats lived in A.J. since the late 50's. A couple of yrs. back because of work schedules we were feeding at 4:30 a.m.and we asked if the noise bothered him(answer)"No". But we subsequenly changed our schedule to avoid any problems in the future.When we were adding stalls oneday we asked if that was going to be a problem (answer) "No we enjoy watching the horses run and play. And finally when the P&Z issue 1st cropped up,it started over the # trailers that were allowed on one property we asked if he had a problem with the trailers and(answer)"No ,a person should be able to do what they want on their own property.And proceeded to tell us how he was run out of business here in A.J.

I would say that if a person waits 5yrs to raise a concern and only after it shows up in the public forum and not talking to the neighbor to address your concerns 1st, SHAME ON YOU!!! 

 

 

ajBookchin
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29th, 2009 05:47 pm
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50 horses on 2 1/2 acres is too much??? Is this a professional argument??? An opinion???

According to the College of Agricultural Sciences at Penn State... "A 12-foot x 12-foot stall is the standard recommendation for a 1,000-pound horse."

So... that's 144sq ft per horse. Fifty stalls with those dimensions would consume 7,200 sq ft... that is just over 8.26% of a 2 1/2 acre property...

that does not give me the impression that 50 horses on 2 1/2 acres is too many.



AJlandOwner, what criteria are you using when you state that 50 horses on 2 1/2 acres is too many???


AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Wed Jan 28th, 2009 10:42 pm
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If a resident's quality of life is adversely affected by the common nuisances of horses... why did that resident choose to move to an area known for horses???

****************************************************

I am not NEW to the neighborhood, nor have I just moved to AJ.

****************************************************



The neighbor also cited a problem with lighting... lighting is a dark skies issue... not exclusive to horse-boarding facilities.
****************************************************

??????????????????????????????

what was said that "I thought it was interesting that the city has many pages about "light control" and very Little about horses." I also stated that  " if common sense is NOT the rule, Then there needs to be RULES for common sense".




 

 

AJlandOwnerSINCE1958
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 Posted: Wed Jan 28th, 2009 10:34 pm
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''


"You have to make sure the lighting doesn’t go onto others’ property," he said of his concerns. "Rules are made for common sense."




 his five-acre plot of land is adversely affected by a horse stable that is adjacent to his home.




"Their choices are adversely affecting my quality of life," he said of common nuisances such as odor and flies. "There are two sides to every coin."''



 



Funny, you never get  quoted right  in the News papers, EVER !



what was said that "I thought it was interesting that the city has many pages about "light control" and very Little about horses." I also stated that  " if common sense is NOT the rule, Then there needs to be RULES for common sense".



If the horse community would control themselves, the city would not have a problem. 50 horses on 2 1/2 acres is to much.



 I don't play music loud (assault on the EARS),



I don't shine bright lights on to other peoples land (assault on the EYES),



I don't have any bad odors on my land ( assault on the NOSE) ,



 I don't make any excessive dust ( assault on the LUNGS).



But others owners  choices affect my lot? Is that fair?



So I stand up after 5+ years of keeping quiet about a NEW owner  to the neighborhood (remember I was around in 1958) affecting the surrounding properties and I am the bad guy?  Funny, I remember a few years back that a horse was seen in the vicinity once a year, and at the LDDs parade. NOW I live in a hose stall with 50 other horses (or so it smells like).



20+ people at the meeting stood up and requested to speak. ALL were pro horses, I am one of them, one person spoke of negative impact and that was one to many?  BUT HOW MANY HORSES ON A 2 1/2 LOT IS ENOUGH? 50 ? 100?



 The Horse Community needs little self control, and some respect for the surrounding neighbors, and we all can live together.

ajwatchdog2008
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Ed Dison wrote: What does belonging to Superstition Horsemen's Association have to do with anything? We have to do with just about anything in this city when it comes to horses, is there a problem with that, or with belonging to our association? You are doing research to prove what? If I can be of any help let me know.

 

Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horsemen's Association

Dison, get that chip off your shoulder. I already stated that I have nothing against the SHA, only the fact that Johnny is connecting himself Chicago style, to just about everything he can in A.J..

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Wed Jan 28th, 2009 07:53 pm
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What does belonging to Superstition Horsemen's Association have to do with anything? We have to do with just about anything in this city when it comes to horses, is there a problem with that, or with belonging to our association? You are doing research to prove what? If I can be of any help let me know.

 

Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horsemen's Association

ajwatchdog2008
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Ed Dison wrote: SHA is in talks with the city council? What conflict? For belonging to Superstition Horsemen's Association! You people really need to do your research!

 

Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horsemen's Association   http://www.sha4u.org

 


Dison, I did do my research. Johnny confirmed he is a member of the same SHA committee that his wife chairs, also a member of the same association you are a president of and who recently spoke in front of the P&Z Commission.




Superstition Horsemen’s Association President Ed Dison explained to the commission of how important the horse community is to the local economy.


"This lifestyle is a major attraction to this area," he said of the western heritage that often lures part-time residents to Apache Junction. "This is a major business and it is in our backyard."


A Publication Committee has been formed regarding SHA and the Apache Junction Independent newspaper is developing a coalition together with SHA to publish an article from SHA once a month.  The Chairperson is Pamela J. Kantowski, members are Bryan Martyn, Mickey Leach and John Kantowski.  A stipulation was made that all written articles must be approved by the Board a month ahead of time and no other agency may publish the article.  Danielle read the upcoming article for October.  Pam Gaston made a motion to accept the article with corrections and Judy Hood seconded it.  The name of the column is, “Happy Trails”. 

http://www.sha4u.org/October%2008%20%20Pony%20Tracks.doc




Last edited on Wed Jan 28th, 2009 07:34 pm by

ajwatchdog2008
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johnnyk597 wrote: Well known fact dog, she heads up as chairperson for the Sha's publicity committee and has a column every month in the independent which by the way only started about Oct. of last year. I own 5 horses and a pony, oops rephrase WE own them, but am not on 2 1/2 acres so I do not board horses. Conflict, I don't think so, I believe I could still have an objective outlook and make the same on a decision about that. Now if I Had a boarding facility I would recluse my self from negotiations. By the way I am a member of that committee also. Hope that puts it in perspective as to how I feel. Thanks for the question dog. hey you hear I bought a white hat?
Johnny, I bet you just enjoy how you're on this committee or that commission. Sorry, but I'm not impressed as I think you are beholding to many, too loud, too obnoxious, and certainly not in tune with the fact that this is Apache Junction, Arizona, not Chicago, Illinois, home of greased palms and crooked politicians.

 

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 05:46 am
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SHA is in talks with the city council? What conflict? For belonging to Superstition Horsemen's Association! You people really need to do your research!

 

Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horsemen's Association   http://www.sha4u.org

 

flyrep
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 01:17 am
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Who watches Rambo?   Boring stuff Dog.   Why not more regulations dog?

Don't you want your friends to make more? 

johnnyk597
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 12:59 am
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Well known fact dog, she heads up as chairperson for the Sha's publicity committee and has a column every month in the independent which by the way only started about Oct. of last year. I own 5 horses and a pony, oops rephrase WE own them, but am not on 2 1/2 acres so I do not board horses. Conflict, I don't think so, I believe I could still have an objective outlook and make the same on a decision about that. Now if I Had a boarding facility I would recluse my self from negotiations. By the way I am a member of that committee also. Hope that puts it in perspective as to how I feel. Thanks for the question dog. hey you hear I bought a white hat?

Last edited on Sun Jan 25th, 2009 06:02 am by johnnyk597

ajwatchdog2008
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flyrep wrote: Would somebody please think of the children.

I have and will I will continue to do so, which is exactly why I don't want you or any other civilian bringing loaded shotguns or firearms of any kind into the schools. You're a teacher, so act like a teacher by teaching and stop playing Rambo.

flyrep
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 12:17 am
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Good question AJbookchin.  Why are so many afraid of liberty running amok?

Why not license baby sitters?  Why not have a home inspection

for any family that hires a sitter?  How about home inspections for new

parents?   Would somebody please think of the children.

ajwatchdog2008
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 Posted: Sat Jan 24th, 2009 10:46 pm
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Johnny, why is there no mention of you or your wife's past and current affiliation with the Superstition Horsemen's Association? I have nothing against the SHA, but since you are running for council, you have a duty to disclose that information to the voters for those who may not already know that, especially since the SHA is in talks with the city council over proposed horse boarding regulations. Do you think your past and current affiliation constitutes a conflict of interest?

johnnyk597
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 01:33 am
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From what I remember there were only 2 people at the meeting that said anything against these proposals from the audience you and the gentleman who visits his families property on Sunday's. All the rest ( more than a hundred) were there in support of them. One commisioner said he had horse experience in race horses, which is not comparing apples and oranges here.

ajBookchin
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 10:31 pm
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I'll agree that inspections of various sorts are beneficial... every customer at a restaurant can not inspect the kitchen... home buyers can not inspect the electrical and plumbing behind the drywall... these inspections are reasonable because the consumer can not verify important facts independently...

but... what is there about a horse stable that a prospective horse owner can not reasonably inspect??? What added-value does an inspection by an ACC officer provide over an inspection by a knowledgeable horse owner who cares about the welfare of their animals??? I'll admit, I'm very hesitant to accept your claim that many horse owners who board their horses lack an understanding of their animals' needs.

The argument regarding drunk drivers... ajbizowner, please tell me you are not trying to draw a comparison between the Horseman's Association and drunk drivers... are you??? I would trust and value their input (ASHA's not the drunk drivers)... I doubt an organization such as theirs would risk their reputation by recommending ordinances that were not in the best interests of the animals.

The stables are not competing for the same business... not primarily... the stables are simply offering an additional service that overlaps with another business... happens all the time...

(what is the requirement to operate a camp site??? some open space and a toilet???)

(ajbizowner... between you and me... if you were my neighbor, I'd be OK with your brother-in-law spending a night in your travel trailer on occasion... you could even hook-up some water if you'd like... but try not to be too obvious... some of the neighbors are uptight about that sort of stuff... just don't let him move in there on a regular basis or I'll come knocking on your door!!!)

A stable with twenty semi-trailer sized trailers wouldn't sound too appealing if a were a potential customer... hmmm... why not let the market decide???

Really though, it does not sound reasonable that a horse owner is going to truck a single horse around in a semi-sized trailer... I suppose it might be possible to end up with twenty semi-trailer sized units at a single stable, but its probably an unlikely scenario...

makes me wonder... why do we fear the potential of liberty running amok???

Which reminds me... I've been "away" for a while... has there been a mass influx of containers since they were approved for use in some zoning districts???


dzrtrat67
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 08:36 pm
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It might also be a good idea to look at existing, well run, local stables, in addition to looking at what other towns did.
They could provide valuable insight on issues like:
how much space per horse is needed,
how much space for trailers, camping, etc.
what boarders should be looking for when checking out potential stables, etc.
They could also help with determining what laws are good and just as well as what ones hinder.

Joe

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 Posted: Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 08:16 pm
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ajbookchin,

Inspections - just about any other business you can name has some kind of inspection beyond a customer's approval. Building code, fire marshall and health department to name a few. I can think of at least one restaurant I've eaten with excellent food - I thought - and then saw it featured on Channel 5's Dirty Dining segment within a couple of weeks. The difference between a customer's inspection and a city certification/inspection is monumental.

MANY folks (not all) who board their horses don't have a clue about what is overcrowded, what conditions are safe or  healthy for their horses. They don't know how to tell if the food is good, or how the setting affects their horse. Many horse owners think that putting on a Resistol hat and being able to sit in a saddle makes them a "horseman". Educated ACC officers inspecting the facilities can be a big asset to the uneducated horse owner.

The city needs to make haste slowly on this issue. The city's General Plan is up for review and the zoning ordinances and regulations for businesses ALL OVER TOWN need to be evaluated and coordinated. Some of the stables are currently not compliant with existing code. So - we should make changes to give them what they want because they are already doing it? I guess we should let drunk drivers remain on the road and continue to break the law because they are already doing it, too?

Going back to overnight camping. The stables are getting PAID for allowing overnight (up to 6 months or more is "overnight"?) camping (with NO inspections to bring them up to standard with existing RV/camping businesses), yet city ordinances won't allow me to have my brother-in-law spend a single night as a non-paying guest in my own travel trailer (dry camping) on my property! There are camping/RV parks in the area that CAN accommodate the larger RV's and if it there was incentive, I'd bet more RV parks would/could become even more friendly to horsemen. The gas station on Ironwood got shot down in part because it was in competition with another station. Why is it a different case for the boarding stables - they are competing with existing businesses, some that are probably in their backyards.

The idea behind seeing what other cities/counties are doing or have done is to keep AJ P&Z from making the same mistakes they did. We should do this RIGHT so we only have to do it ONCE! That there are a couple of commissioners who have some experience with horses is an asset when it comes to having regulations written, because it's not just a bureaucrat doing a job. Some things that staff might suggest or promote could be contrary to "horse sense". The 1 trailer per horse is a good example and on the face of it, makes some sense. BUT - I believe the general public with no experience with horses or the horseman's lifestyle think a horse trailer is the 1 or 2 horse trailer they pass on the freeway once in a while. In fact, those type trailers are becoming scarce.

According to the proposed changes, if a facility has 20 horses, they are entitled to 20 trailers - period. There is no qualification or definition of a "horse trailer" regarding size or accoutrements. Some trailers can hold as many as 6 horses AND have living quarters. Some of them are almost as big as a semi-trailer! So - if there are 20 horses with 20 of THOSE trailers on 2.5 acres, it makes a big difference! THEN add the RV's for the overnight campers and you don't have much room left to comfortably board horses, and if - God forbid - there's a fire, it could be disastrous!

Somewhere in the meeting, the tone seemed to change to "they are trying to shut the boarding stables down". Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the people questioning the proposals want to know why there are 15 businesses bent on getting concessions that nobody else in town can have - 6' fences in the front yard, overnight camping, etc. There were people at the meeting who do not like horses, but they also recognize that the stables are a vital part of the Apache Junction lifestyle.

I have research in progress - when I have it compiled in useable form, I'll comment furher.

Festus
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 06:38 pm
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No we don't need the inspectors the boarders do indeed take care of that. there is a concern that if you have 30 horses you have 30 trailers, simply not not the case. many boarders own multiple horses. And as for being adversely affected one would ask if the neighbor has spoken to the facility to see if some of his concerns could be mitigated before bringing it to public forum. And a conversation after the meeting revealed that its his parents property and not his. And lastly I agree that A.J. needs to bring about it's own self image and not ride the coattails of others. The area offers a more unique type of riding experience than the other cities mentioned. 

    

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 Posted: Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 11:38 am
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That's why all those people showed up at the P&Z board meeting. Well said, we are the last city in the valley and have the best riding areas right now. We can make a difference and not follow other cities that gave up that right to development. With the land south of the 60 and our downtown and redevelopment districts along with the protected horse zone in the "Y" as our general plan states,all can co-exist. It's the  person that buys in this area of the Y  that should be checking zoning and if he's not blind or something, he knows the area is horse friendly. If you do not like the smell, looks of, or can't put up with the going 's on there, DON"T BUY THERE just because it's cheap to do so. Again just my 2 cents worth. 


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