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V Averill
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 06:56 pm |
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I would like to add a couple thoughts/ replies to this forum.
There are several very nice facilities available to board horses in the Gilbert/ Chandler area. There is also very few trails to ride without trailering out. Apache Junction has a variety of facilities offering a wide range of services. But, I know of no other area that can compare to AJ in access to local trails .
As for fencing, I have a different view on the 6' fencing. I feel that a 6' fence is preferable in the front yard in part to protect the horses from people who go through the neighborhood feeding "treats" and petting horses. A 6' fence will also protect people from a horse who may bite. Horses are large animlas and the safety of both them and the people who may be exposed to them should be a main concern with rules, zoning issues, etc.
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 03:26 pm |
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horseracer wrote: COME ON PEOPLE GET A CLUE!!!, I would not put my horse ANYWHERE in apache "junk"tion. You want to see a real Stable go to Gilbert or Chandler where horses actually have large stalls and get out and graze for the day. I have been to all the places in this forum and NONE of them are worthy of being a stable, 50 PLUS horses on 5 acres is unacceptable, I dont care how many times you take you manure to the dump its the urine smell that is gross, Urine soaked stalls I can smell it just going up Teepee. Boarding owners are out to make a fast buck off of you in AJ...Quality Place means do not overcrowd, use horse bedding,,turn out horses for owners,, water down your Arenas,,Here is the Best one that almost nobody does in AJ new horse comes in and boarding place doesn't check to make sure the shots are up to date...City needs to do something FAST if I owned a home there the biggest investment of my life and one opened next to me I would be pissed.
I was not aware they still allowed horses in Gilbert and Chandler! Nice try! LOL! Stand up so we can hear you! If you owned a home here? Get your information straight, it's 50 PLUS horses on 2.5 acres. I can tell YOU do not do any research what so ever, I have friends in Gilbert and Chandler and know what it's like. When you get a horse, buy a house in Gilbert, and leave us in the "junk"tion to ourselves. Oh, and say hi to Gail for us! FYI, this is about "misuse of power by a public official", so really, if your trying to get someone on here to react to your comments........ have fun in Gilbert.
Ed Dison
Last edited on Tue May 19th, 2009 04:09 pm by Ed Dison
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horseracer
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 03:08 pm |
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| COME ON PEOPLE GET A CLUE!!!, I would not put my horse ANYWHERE in apache "junk"tion. You want to see a real Stable go to Gilbert or Chandler where horses actually have large stalls and get out and graze for the day. I have been to all the places in this forum and NONE of them are worthy of being a stable, 50 PLUS horses on 5 acres is unacceptable, I dont care how many times you take you manure to the dump its the urine smell that is gross, Urine soaked stalls I can smell it just going up Teepee. Boarding owners are out to make a fast buck off of you in AJ...Quality Place means do not overcrowd, use horse bedding,,turn out horses for owners,, water down your Arenas,,Here is the Best one that almost nobody does in AJ new horse comes in and boarding place doesn't check to make sure the shots are up to date...City needs to do something FAST if I owned a home there the biggest investment of my life and one opened next to me I would be pissed.
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 08:16 am |
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J&JFarms wrote: horseowner wrote: J and J farms..
I was reading your comments regarding the horse boarding issue. Are you an attny?
Did I say I was?
If Mr. Dison hasn't made it clear, I will.
It doesn't matter why Ms. Evans went to that boarding facility that day the facts are that she is on record stating that the boarding facility in question is impacting the value of properties in the area.
When she goes to said boarding facility with a property owner in the area, she as the P&Z committee chair and representative of the City of Apache Junction, has said via her actions that she and the city are in support of a specific property owner and the concerns of said property owner.
The City potentially has a very large exposure in this situation. Any action taken by the P&Z or the City against this particular boarding facility or any other will be suspect.
And just how many properties does Ms. Evans own in the area in question? Let's just say her comment of public record, in regards to property values, effects her greatly.
Ed Dison
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 08:08 am |
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flyspy007 wrote: Mr Dison
You are warned as well!
And?
Ed Dison
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J&JFarms
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 07:22 am |
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horseowner wrote: J and J farms..
I was reading your comments regarding the horse boarding issue. Are you an attny?
Did I say I was?
If Mr. Dison hasn't made it clear, I will.
It doesn't matter why Ms. Evans went to that boarding facility that day the facts are that she is on record stating that the boarding facility in question is impacting the value of properties in the area.
When she goes to said boarding facility with a property owner in the area, she as the P&Z committee chair and representative of the City of Apache Junction, has said via her actions that she and the city are in support of a specific property owner and the concerns of said property owner.
The City potentially has a very large exposure in this situation. Any action taken by the P&Z or the City against this particular boarding facility or any other will be suspect.
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flyspy007
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 03:33 am |
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Mr Dison
You are warned as well!
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 01:00 am |
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ajbizowner,
Given the lot sizes in the rural areas of the city of Apache Junction, do you feel it is fair for a property owner that has 330 feet of "front property" line not to be able to use that property they way they would like, including, but not limited to, a 6 foot fence? I'm sure you have a lot to say about this issue, but this is about "misuse of power by a public official", if you would like to stay on topic, so be it. If not, please continue this under a new topic.
Ed Dison
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 10:21 pm |
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ajbizowner wrote: Horseowner,
In addition to the 15 licensed facilities, there are approximately 40 more that are not licensed. While some of them are as small as 1.25 acres, I'd bet there are a number that would fit in the 2.5 acre+ size.
Mr. Dison,
You repeatedly cite (and misrepresent) BLM's wild horse adoption requirements as your support for the 6' fence on the front property line of the boarding facilities.
This is straight from the BLM's Wild Horse and Burro adoption information website:
What facilities must I have to adopt a wild horse or burro?
You must provide a minimum of 400 square feet (20 feet x 20 feet) for each animal adopted. Until fence broken, adult horses need to be maintained in an enclosure at least 6 feet high; (my emphasis) burros in an enclosure at least 4.5 feet high; and horses less than 18 months old in an enclosure at least 5 feet high. You should not release an ungentled animal into a large open area, such as a pasture, since you may not be able to recapture the animal for training or to provide veterinary care. However, once the animal is gentled, you may release it into a pasture or similar area.
Again - please note that there is NO requirement by BLM for any person adopting a wild horse to have a permanent 6' high fence along the front property line, regardless of whether the horse will be kept on a private horse property or in a boarding stable.
ajbizowner, misrepresent? I don't think so! I personally go out on 2 to 6 calls a week regarding equine. These calls include loose horses, some that have gone over less than 6 foot high fence. One recently that reared up and came down on a post less than 6 feet high, severed a major artery and bled to death. Now I don't claim to be an expert, but in my 47 years of "horse experience", I've never, ever saw a horse try to go over or through a fence that was at "eye level". As far as 6 foot fences along the front property line, I think that as long as you can see through them it should be left up to the property owner, after all we live in a rural area. As far as the small property boarders, do you guys really go out and take pictures of all the illegal stuff that goes on in Apache Junction? Contact me if you feel the need.
Ed Dison
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ajbizowner
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 09:23 pm |
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Horseowner,
In addition to the 15 licensed facilities, there are approximately 40 more that are not licensed. While some of them are as small as 1.25 acres, I'd bet there are a number that would fit in the 2.5 acre+ size.
Mr. Dison,
You repeatedly cite (and misrepresent) BLM's wild horse adoption requirements as your support for the 6' fence on the front property line of the boarding facilities.
This is straight from the BLM's Wild Horse and Burro adoption information website:
What facilities must I have to adopt a wild horse or burro?
You must provide a minimum of 400 square feet (20 feet x 20 feet) for each animal adopted. Until fence broken, adult horses need to be maintained in an enclosure at least 6 feet high; (my emphasis) burros in an enclosure at least 4.5 feet high; and horses less than 18 months old in an enclosure at least 5 feet high. You should not release an ungentled animal into a large open area, such as a pasture, since you may not be able to recapture the animal for training or to provide veterinary care. However, once the animal is gentled, you may release it into a pasture or similar area.
Again - please note that there is NO requirement by BLM for any person adopting a wild horse to have a permanent 6' high fence along the front property line, regardless of whether the horse will be kept on a private horse property or in a boarding stable.
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Jim Foster
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 08:14 pm |
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horseowner
FYI.... we are not members of a boarding assn. just licensed facilities, Mr. Dison represents his own issues which I think happen to coincide with the issues at hand. And the 15 stables that assisted city staff were indeed licensed
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 12:58 pm |
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flyspy007 wrote: Dison
Is a guy that knows how to influence people. He should do fine with the City Council!
Any wonder the are trying to put an end to the Ponderosa!
Proof and evidence, something you would know nothing about. You were warned Mr. Fisher.Last edited on Mon May 18th, 2009 01:08 pm by Ed Dison
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flyspy007
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 07:29 am |
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Dison
Is a guy that knows how to influence people. He should do fine with the City Council!
Any wonder the are trying to put an end to the Ponderosa!
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 03:43 am |
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flyspy007 wrote: Mr Dison
Are you proposing that authorities elected or not in Apache Junction are being sneaky?
Like the time they tried to pass new "maintenence standards" to prohibit RV'S on private property for the purpose of filling a new Storage facility? The one's Fisher exposed and quickly went away!
You can't be serious?
Your in the wrong place Mr. Fisher. I suggest you go play elsewhere.
Ed Dison
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flyspy007
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 03:35 am |
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Christa
I wish I had the guts and patience Fisher has .
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Christa_Rizzi
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 03:15 am |
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flyspy007 wrote: Mr Dison
Are you proposing that authorities elected or not in Apache Junction are being sneaky?
Like the time they tried to pass new "maintenence standards" to prohibit RV'S on private property for the purpose of filling a new Storage facility? The one's Fisher exposed and quickly went away!
You can't be serious?
Elliot why do you keep making up new names to promote yourself as if no one will notice 
Christa Rizzi
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flyspy007
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 03:12 am |
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Mr Dison
Are you proposing that authorities elected or not in Apache Junction are being sneaky?
Like the time they tried to pass new "maintenence standards" to prohibit RV'S on private property for the purpose of filling a new Storage facility? The one's Fisher exposed and quickly went away!
You can't be serious?
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 02:32 am |
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Ms Rizzi, you do understand why six foot high fences should be allowed in regards to horses, correct? And you do understand the issue being addressed here, correct? "Misuse of authority" by a person of power.
Ed Dison
Last edited on Mon May 18th, 2009 02:39 am by Ed Dison
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Christa_Rizzi
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 02:13 am |
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Ed Dison wrote: Although this blog has gotten off track and some personal attacks have taken place, this is really about "misuse of authority by a public official", this started with the stable issue. Legally licensed commercial horse boarding facilities as defined by city code, are not interested in the "smaller facilities, nor do they, as far as I understand, see them as a threat to their legally operated business. This was brought up by certain P&Z commissioners, and is being used by them for what ever reasons. Enforcement? The stable committee never brought up the smaller parcels because they are not included in this section.Those that are on smaller parcels "DO WANT TO SURVIVE AND CONTINUE to engage in commercial horse boarding", are not, nor have ever been doing this legally. Do they have a license? Can they get a license? Do they pay city taxes? Have they ever payed city taxes on the board they collect? The answer at this time is no. So therefore they are not engaged in "commercial horse boarding". This is an issue that is totally separate from this, and although some have tried to tie them together for enforcement/ personal gain reasons, I don't see this happening now or in the future. It would take a bunch of smaller parcel stables to come forward and expose themselves as operating illegally, and have very well written proposals to present to city staff. I then believe that if it were probable, there would be a limit as to how many horses could be boarded, lot coverage, rezoning, ect on the smaller parcels. This would now affect the private property owner in such that they would more than likely have a limit to their number of horses, not to mention the cost to the city notifying every property owner in the R143/ GR areas. All of this would likely lead to, and surely open the door to just getting rid of horses altogether within the city limits. I have first hand experience with this whole scenario, so believe me it can happen. If I can be of any assistance let me know, but please do not confuse the issues here. I do recommend you keep a very close eye on some of our P&Z commissioners. Issues that are not specific to the horse community as a whole, most times are affected, IE: "front yard definitions", before P&Z now.
Ed Dison
BINGO,
The six foot fence in the front yard on street easment...
on three seperate agendas
Needs to be pulled out and decided on it's own for this very reason
Christa Rizzi
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Sun May 17th, 2009 11:03 pm |
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horseowner wrote: In reading through this Blog of comments it appears that there are
those being attacked for what they have, those trying to keep what they
have and those that don't want others in to what they have .
IF those that have smaller parcel DO WANT TO SURVIVE AND CONTINUE
to engage in commercial horse boarding IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE FOR THEM?
Although this blog has gotten off track and some personal attacks have taken place, this is really about "misuse of authority by a public official", this started with the stable issue. Legally licensed commercial horse boarding facilities as defined by city code, are not interested in the "smaller facilities, nor do they, as far as I understand, see them as a threat to their legally operated business. This was brought up by certain P&Z commissioners, and is being used by them for what ever reasons. Enforcement? The stable committee never brought up the smaller parcels because they are not included in this section.Those that are on smaller parcels "DO WANT TO SURVIVE AND CONTINUE to engage in commercial horse boarding", are not, nor have ever been doing this legally. Do they have a license? Can they get a license? Do they pay city taxes? Have they ever payed city taxes on the board they collect? The answer at this time is no. So therefore they are not engaged in "commercial horse boarding". This is an issue that is totally separate from this, and although some have tried to tie them together for enforcement/ personal gain reasons, I don't see this happening now or in the future. It would take a bunch of smaller parcel stables to come forward and expose themselves as operating illegally, and have very well written proposals to present to city staff. I then believe that if it were probable, there would be a limit as to how many horses could be boarded, lot coverage, rezoning, ect on the smaller parcels. This would now affect the private property owner in such that they would more than likely have a limit to their number of horses, not to mention the cost to the city notifying every property owner in the R143/ GR areas. All of this would likely lead to, and surely open the door to just getting rid of horses altogether within the city limits. I have first hand experience with this whole scenario, so believe me it can happen. If I can be of any assistance let me know, but please do not confuse the issues here. I do recommend you keep a very close eye on some of our P&Z commissioners. Issues that are not specific to the horse community as a whole, most times are affected, IE: "front yard definitions", before P&Z now.
Ed Dison
Last edited on Mon May 18th, 2009 01:07 am by Ed Dison
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horseowner
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Posted: Sun May 17th, 2009 10:16 pm |
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In reading through this Blog of comments it appears that there are
those being attacked for what they have, those trying to keep what they
have and those that don't want others in to what they have .
IF those that have smaller parcel DO WANT TO SURVIVE AND CONTINUE
to engage in commercial horse boarding IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE FOR THEM?
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Sun May 17th, 2009 09:49 pm |
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horseowner wrote: I was reading your comments regarding the horse boarding issue. Are you an attny?
Just a person interested in everyone's rights.
Who are you referring to?
Ed Dison
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horseowner
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Posted: Sun May 17th, 2009 09:26 pm |
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J and J farms..
I was reading your comments regarding the horse boarding issue. Are you an attny?
Just a person interested in everyone's rights.
Are all the members of the Superstition Horse Boarders Assn,represented by Mr.Dison's comments and are all the Horse Boarders licensed and have 2.5 acres?
Last edited on Sun May 17th, 2009 10:06 pm by horseowner
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Sat May 16th, 2009 11:46 pm |
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Gail Cisty Evans wrote: Jim,
Unfortuately, we can not make rules for just the other people. It is a wide variety.
Gail
Your correct, YOU can not make the rules, only recommendations to City Council. Except in the case of a "conditional use permit", the final decision lies with the P&Z Commission. Is this why this was pushed so hard? Good way to control a "neighborhood". Wonder how any future decisions on "conditional use permits" will be considered "unbiased"after this. Public records don't lie.
Ed Dison
Last edited on Sun May 17th, 2009 12:57 am by Ed Dison
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Fri May 15th, 2009 07:51 pm |
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Gail, Ms Evans, Madam Chairperson, I, and others, are tired of listening to your defense. Everything you have said here and from the bench is a matter of public record. If you had done your homework on the 1.25 acres being used for boarding stables, you would have realized the impact it would have on the city, cost wise, ect. Check it out and you will see why the people before you opposed it. We did our homework! You insinuate that this was not wanted because of competition, and that you did that for the stables? Do you realize how crooked that sounds coming from a P&Z Commissioner? You ask the stable owners to do as much research as the commissioners? They live it, they spent close to 2 years working on this, with advisor's from the city. I feel that you have handled yourself as Chairperson, and as a Commissioner, in a very inappropriate manner, unbecoming to your position. I think that your credibility with the people you volunteered to serve is next to zero. At this point one would suggest that you may want to look into resigning your position before it gets worse. This would be "fair to all". It is my belief that you refuse to recognize me, is it my tattoos? That I live on the border of the city limits, in Pinal county? My address still says "Apache Junction", I have a business license in the city, I am involved in an association in the city that seems to be a thorn in your side, I am here to stay. Let me know on that resignation, I plan on being a big help with that.
Ed Dison
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Fri May 15th, 2009 07:51 pm |
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Gail, Ms Evans, Madam Chairperson, I, and others, are tired of listening to your defense. Everything you have said here and from the bench is a matter of public record. If you had done your homework on the 1.25 acres being used for boarding stables, you would have realized the impact it would have on the city, cost wise, ect. Check it out and you will see why the people before you opposed it. We did our homework! You insinuate that this was not wanted because of competition, and that you did that for the stables? Do you realize how crooked that sounds coming from a P&Z Commissioner? You ask the stable owners to do as much research as the commissioners? They live it, they spent close to 2 years working on this, with advisor's from the city. I feel that you have handled yourself as Chairperson, and as a Commissioner, in a very inappropriate manner, unbecoming to your position. I think that your credibility with the people you volunteered to serve is next to zero. At this point one would suggest that you may want to look into resigning your position before it gets worse. This would be "fair to all". It is my belief that you refuse to recognize me, is it my tattoos? That I live on the border of the city limits, in Pinal county? My address still says "Apache Junction", I have a business license in the city, I am involved in an association in the city that seems to be a thorn in your side, I am here to stay. Let me know on that resignation, I plan on being a big help with that.
Ed Dison
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Christa_Rizzi
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Posted: Fri May 15th, 2009 04:04 am |
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You know the down side of this forum is when we discuss something we are passionate about, we sometimes say things we would never say face to face..
It's so easy to type and send in the heat of the moment
We've all done it
It takes courage to recognize it in ourselves and character to rectify it..
Peace
Christa Rizzi
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Gina
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 06:53 pm |
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This AM I received a call from a very old and wise friend ,whom has been father figure and sometimes a wonderful sounding board and most importantly a mentor. After explaining all that has been said and done by myself from the getting the lic. to the P&Z meeting to the blogs. he gave me the finger shaking speech, and oh lord did I receive the wrath of wisdom. I was told you can always make your point with out the belittlement of others , and in getting the lic. that is what I had done, and then had tried to justify it to others, in a open forum and rubbed their hard work in their face. Again after trying to tell him my objectives , I was not given a reprieve by him. After much thought on the conversation with him , I find myself a little (Just a little)ashamed of the way I handled myself . Guess that there is always a better way if you choose to look for it.
So to all out there whom I have offended I do extend an apology, that was not my intent.
Respectfully
Gina
Last edited on Thu May 14th, 2009 09:33 pm by Gina
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Gina
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 04:34 pm |
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Ms. Peanut, I take offense with your comment about my rolling over for the horse people! I have never been against the horses or the Stables , just the ability to have an area that is saturated with new Stables and neighbors not being informed!
If a neighbor has to notify all surrounding neighbors about a 2 car garage than why shouldn't the same hold true for the Stables? Do the stables affect your neighbors , probably , but that is up to you and the neighbors to adjust accordingly. The only thing that should change is any new stable going in and notification of the neighbors! And looking to see if that one area has an over abundance of Stables.
Leave the existing stables alone as most are doing everything possible to accommodate themselves and everyone else.
Do I agree with RV parking ? No I do not , however after talking with several people I understand why the Stables are asking for this , and if done correctly could work for all involved, do I think 53 horses and 53 RVs with people living in them is acceptable no I dont, but I also think now that most Stable owners do have common sense and enough respect for the neighbors and neighborhood not to oversaturate their property with RVs.
So no my stand on the Stables has not changed ,My respect for them has. Go talk to them yourself , fight with them , try and shove your thoughts down their throat and see how far you get ! FIGHTS ON !!
Now go talk to them about your concerns and maybe changes can happen!! Reference to Sandra and Mr.& Mrs. Foster
Scincerly
Gina
Last edited on Thu May 14th, 2009 04:36 pm by Gina
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johnnyk597
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 04:13 pm |
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| WOW, after a hundred years of civilization that was brought to the west, we have a real wild west show here. Please check your guns at the sheriff's office upon entering town, no public intoxication allowed in town, there will be no riding your horses into the dance hall's or saloons, have a nice time while in AJ and remember shop AJ too.
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 03:16 pm |
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I believe everyone here is for the horses, I can not speak for Gina, or Gail, but my gut feeling is that they have always been for the horses also. This is about stables and neighbors. As I have stated before, "fly and manure issues are an excellent argument to use when trying to control/rid/limit the number of horses in a given area". Listen to Gail's arguments, property values, flies, urine and manure smells. Would this still be her stand if the stables around her were 3 miles to the west? Is she trying to rid her neighborhood of mobile home parks too? Is getting rid of that small, "grandfathered in" park on her "hit list"? Is that bringing down property values in "her neighborhood" also? If we all go to every P&Z meeting, we may see what we may perceive as just this. Will Ms. Evans use the "front yard definitions" to further her campaign against stables in her neighborhood? We need to go to ALL P&Z meetings!
Ed Dison
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Jim Foster
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 02:49 pm |
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| I don't know that I would say that she has rolled over and I don't know Gina but it does sound like she is doing her due diligence to find out if things are truly as bad as some have said previously on this forum and others. I think with any issue all should do the same. Last edited on Thu May 14th, 2009 02:57 pm by Jim Foster
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peanutshims
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 02:11 pm |
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after reading ginas blog sounds to me like she has rolled over onto the horses side.
wow after she started all this
peanut
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J&JFarms
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 07:40 am |
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Ms Evans...or Chair Person Evans,
Stone thrower here.
Your intent may have been honorable that day, but everyone in the horse community knows you. When you come with a property owner to discuss issues with the owners of a boarding facility, whom both know you and your position, it becomes a slippery slope. You see the mere appearance of impropriety, especially over a contentious subject such as this, is more than enough cause to suggest there is a conflict of interest. The matter of public record is sufficient to support my position.
As the Chairperson of the P&Z Committee, your public comments and your actions, both behind the bench and in your private life, when specifically applied to this issue, become increasingly suspect. While you may or may not have nefarious intent, any action that the P&Z takes against the specific properties/owners with whom you have had contact outside of the chambers will be and should be scrutinized.
You see Gina has really touched on the type of people that Jim and Barb Foster are in their daily life. They are good folks to their boarders, their neighbors and their friends. Their boarding facility isn't just their business, it is their home. Few folks are willing to open their home, 7 days a week, for friends, let alone boarders. Some have commented about activity at all hours of the night but it simply isn't the case. Perhaps on the rare occasion, but both Jim and Barb have lives and need to sleep. They have hours of operation for both themselves and their neighbors. I would love to have a couple acres next to their property.
Mr. Dison is correct; it is the incremental erosion of our property rights that is the single greatest fear of the horse community. The small, yet vocal group of horse owners is not going to roll over and let the special interests steamroll over our rights.
I'll gladly volunteer for the next P&Z opening, or any other public service opening for the City of Apache Junction.
James
J&J Farms, Apache Junction/Payson/Heber
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 05:07 am |
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Ms. Rizzi, in some cases it's not 100% horses. It would depend on the property in question, is there excessive amounts of manure on the property, ect. If a person keeps the property reasonably clean the fly population is greatly reduced, and adding some sort of fly control in the mix reduces it more. Here the properties in question are boarding stables, and the neighbors of boarding stables. I see greater problems with pest control in this city other than flies. What about the mosquito and west nile? Look at all the properties around town with standing water in their junk piles, I would think this would be more of a problem. This is an issue, like I said, people trying to control/ rid/ reduce the number of horses in an area by codes/ laws. The funny thing is there is a compromise being worked on that benefits everyone that is concerned here, but the "Leader" has taken her toys home, and doesn't want to play anymore.
Ed Dison
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Christa_Rizzi
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 04:46 am |
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Yes that was my point of asking if flies and odor are an issue with some non horse owners..
If I didn't see my neighbors horses peering over the fence or hear them nay on occasion, I'd never know they had horses.
As I said for some reason once it's real hot I have always had flies..nothing to do with my neighbors horse. It's the heat , they try getting in where it's cool.
I'm wondering if those with concerns, of flies or odor, are unjustly blaming horses..
Christa Rizzi
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 03:55 am |
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Ms. Rizzi, livestock, fowl, garbage, moisture, shade, plants, and many other things attract flies. You can go to any large city, miles away from livestock, during hot weather, and you will have flies. If you google it, you will have tons of info from university studies on this subject. As far as odor issues, horses don't bother some people as much is does others. I don't care for the odors associated with cows and fowl, but rarely notice the odors associated with horses. Some people have no problem cleaning horse stalls, but gag when changing their little one's diapers. It's a matter of personal being (loss of words here), as to what smells would bother a person. Horse manure and fly issues are an excellent argument to use when trying to rid or restrict horses in a general area in regards to laws and codes. Superstition Horsemen's Association was formed in 1980, when a complaint was brought before the city of Apache Junction about horse manure. We are still fighting the same thing 29 years latter.
Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horsemen's Association
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Christa_Rizzi
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 02:53 am |
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Very commendable Mr Dison you're a good egg.
I have a question..hope this doesn't start a war
I don't own horses but I have one neighbor who does..
I have had an issue with flies every summer (13 yrs) once it gets good and hot but way before my nieghbor ever lived here..
Are flies an issue for non horse owners and is this one of the issues people have with stables?
Is odor an issue for non horse owners? I have never ever experienced a fowl odor from my nieghbors horses.
If I did have an issue with flies or odor coming from my neighbors horses, I'd go talk to my neighbor and work out something liveable for both of us..
Christa Rizzi
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 01:00 am |
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Ms. Evans, In case you miss understood my post, I'm extending a hand, either shake it or bite it. You speak of "truce flags", where's yours? Information abounds that will certainly "peak your interests", and take the fence out from between everyone.
Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horsemen's Association
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Jim Foster
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 12:06 am |
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Gail,
I'm not sure I understand what you just said.
Jim
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Gail Cisty Evans
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 11:58 pm |
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Jim,
Unfortuately, we can not make rules for just the other people. It is a wide variety.
Gail
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 10:52 pm |
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Madam Chairperson, or should I use Ms. Evans, YOU, YOURSELF are putting the TWO together! You start your "blog" as Ms. Evans and end it speaking as Madam Chairperson! Make up your mind! As explained to you in the meetings, because you asked the question, when Apache Junction was incorporated as a city, the Pinal County code for boarding stables requiring minimum 5 acres was adopted. It was reviewed, and reduced to today's requirement, of 2.5 acres in 1985. Now if you did the research you claim you have done, you would know this. And remember you asked (and I'm sorry I don't remember which meeting) Brad this question, and he gave you the answer I just typed out. I honestly think you may need some help "scrapping that shoe" off I talked about early on, I have sat on different "boards" in different cities/states, so I have a bit of "knowledge" of what goes on. We have already talked/dealt with each other on the "CITY LEVEL", but on an "OPPOSING SIDES LEVEL" I think I can help. You have my numbers. Remember open meeting rules.
Ed Dison
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Jim Foster
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 10:26 pm |
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Gail
The topic of our discussion was talked about. But the jist and details were not.Our boarders formed their own opinion as to why you were there. And not by what Barb or I said.I don't think the full conversation was exposed until Gina posted and she hit the nail on the head and we are glad to have Sandy come by and are happy to help in any way possible. The 2.5 rule you speak of was in effect 5yrs ago. Barb and I have in this forum and at P&Z welcomed all in the community to come check us out.We need a concerted effort to get this thing done right.
Again Iwould say you are painting all stables with a broad brush.Competition is truly the 1 thing that will keep all of the stables on there A game. So smaller stables aren't a worry to our business and I believe it has more to do with safety issues. As we said monday night we could be full year round but we choose not to for time reasons as well as the work it would take to keep up with the DUST and FLIES. And we are trying to be neighbor friendly
And thank you for the invite but I already started looking into being on the commission.
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Gail Cisty Evans
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 09:13 pm |
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Jim and Barb,
A lot of people have known Sandy and I for many years, and some only know me as P&Z. The conversation we had was amongst 4 people, 2 people thought we had a conversation that resolved a problem . However you or Barb told "the story" , it was not portrayed in the spirit intended or presented, but as mean spirited or the comments earlier would not have been made.
As far as stone throwing goes, it was the Boarders who did not want 1.25 Ac allowed, as I as asked where did the 2.5 Ac come from and there was no known place. Boarders spoke out against 1.25 said it wasn't fair. Fair? or Competitive?
I ask all of you to read as much research on the subject of horses and boarding as the commissioners have done in the last 4 month, the Boarders worked on it for 2 years. As P&Z you have to do as much"Fair to ALL" as possible and that is NOT EASY. Please volunteer on the next P&Z opening if you have ideas we have not explored. This is not an easy volunteer position which I took on help bring AJ to the 2000s and still preserving the lifestyle WE ALL WANT. Even with all this negativity generated by horse boarders, I will continue to do the best I possibly can.
Once again I welcome all of you to come forward at the next vacancy, volunteer.
Gail Cisty Evans
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Gina
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 06:02 pm |
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What a shame that a civic conversation between two neighbors has been construed as a threat by others. After all the blogs on this page running everyone down and still no solution to the supposed problem and a neighbor goes to a neighbor and comes back feeling humbled and informed . I to have spoken to several people since the P&z meeting and have a new respect for the Boarding Stables and their view of people trying to change their lifestyle, I to would fight back! However let me tell you a true fact! Yesterday I received a call from Sandra Eastman and was told she had gone to see a Stable with a group of flys from her pool ( to show stables she was not lying about problem ) she informed me she was there about 30 minutes and at no time did she see 1 darn fly ,she said the owners were extremely informative and now she needed to look at her own property and barn for the problem and would use the information given by the Stable owners to try and correct her problem on her property, She also stated that the Stable owners had purchased something to water down arena for the dust problem and was doing everything to accomdate the neighbors and neighborhood. She could not have praised them any higher had she tried! She came away from the conversation with a whole new respect for the stable and owner . She is also aware the problem is hers and not created by the stable .
The Stable apparently gave her all kinds of info that helped her to understand! AND APPRECIATE ALL THEY WERE TRYING TO DO ON EVERYONES BEHALF!!
how is this a bad thing?
I applaud the Stable owners for the way they handled the situation and Sandra for the abilty to admit she was wrong.
Also Sandra is not Dally 007 as gail is correct ,she will not learn or even attempt to operate a computer, for gosh sakes she just learned how to operate a fax machine and still messes it up.
RESPECTFULLY
GINA
Last edited on Wed May 13th, 2009 06:30 pm by Gina
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Jim Foster
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 05:49 pm |
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Gail,
Surely you understand that the 11 boarders that were still at stable that night know who you are. And IF THEY ASK are entitled to know what the topic was about, as they have a stake in the stable. And they to are allowed to form their own conclusions. As I told Sandy on more than one occassion to feel free to come by with any issue, in fact as of our last conversation that night I'm scheduled to help her when her materials get in. Up to now Barb and I have not responded to these posts even though we keep getting mentioned. And as far as the statement simply to to eliminate more competition if thats not stone throwing and unproductive I don't know what is. Your painting all the stables with a broad brush.
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Gail Cisty Evans
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 04:12 pm |
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To the unknown stone throwers. Once again your facts our wrong, as in so much of this blog. I responded once and once only to the wrong information and to the childish name callers who are not grown up enough to state your names. Horse people and generally upfront, strong souls, lets all be adults.
The 4 people and the only 4 people present know what was said and why, but I will respond this one time , to a stone thrower in the defense of my friend. After 20 years of pool swimming in the evening, we had hundreds of flies in the pool. She was upset that after all this time of living here, this isn't fair. I said unless they are aware of the problem, how can she expect a solution? She asked me to go over there with her and I did.
I was only there as a friend, neighbor, and fellow horse owner WE WERE THERE IN BATHING SUITS AND BATHROBES. I was not there in any official capacity, even though that was taken as the initial perception. We talked and eventually had what I thought was an understanding of the situation. Apparently Jim and Barb did not feel the same way. ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU CAN'T GO OVER AND TALK ABOUT YOUR PROBLEM, NOTHING will ever change.
IF YOU LIVED ACROSS FROM 50+ HORSES, WHERE WOULD YOU START? DOWN THE ROAD? OR THE CLOSES TO YOUR HOME????? THIS WAS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK, BUT APPARENTLY there are more who want to a part of the problem and not the solution.
BOARDERS, please understand, WHAT I HAVE SAID, WOULD HELP YOU BY MAKING IT HARDER FOR NEW BOARDERS ( and be neighborhood friendly as well)AND INCREASE THE EXISTING STABLES CONTINUED LIVELYHOOD ,BUT NO ONE SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN THERE YET. THE BOARDERS DID NOT EVEN WANT 1.25 ACRES ADDED, SIMPLY TO ELIMINATE MORE COMPETITION, YET I DID THE SAME AND STILL BEING CRITICIZES AND MALIGNED.
My friend, and horse owner, Sandra Eastman WAS trying to solve her problem, and we did!!!! Yeah!! for everyone but me. I am sorry Barb and Jim felt the need to continue this unproductive process of keeping horse people divided. And Sandra Eastman is not dalley 007, and she does not know how to turn on her computer.
So, are the truse flags going to go up? Or do you want the horse community continued to be divided and malign each other? Or work together?
Gail Cisty Evans, horse owner, horse property owner, Chair of Planning and Zoning, friend and neighbor.
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eric j messina
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 03:17 pm |
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J&JFarms,
We would love to talk to you regarding our boarding stable. As you can see in the below blogs, our ranch was attacked by the same Dalley007 and friends. Please give me a call.
Thanks
Eric Messina 480-213-2754
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J&JFarms
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 08:18 am |
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Ms. Evans, or Chair Person Evans,
Why did you and dalley007 go to a business and attempt to intimidate the property/business owners? The property/business owner knows who you are and your capacity and you knew it.
You do realize that this is abuse of your position, right?
You do realize that this is an actionable offense, right?
Did you alert the city attorney to your actions?
You do realize that any action that the P&Z takes against this property/business owner from that day forward will now be suspect, right?
I’m no city attorney, but I’d love to represent the property/business owner in ANY case brought in defense of ANY action taken by the P&Z committee, the city council, or any other city employee/office while you maintain your current position, or any position, within the operations of the City of Apache Junction.
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Ed Dison
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Posted: Sun May 10th, 2009 03:57 am |
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Has anyone read the rules for this forum? NO PERSONAL ATTACKS! Dalley007, Mr Messina, Peanutshims, if you CONTINUE I WILL PERSONALLY CONTACT THE WEBMASTER AND HAVE YOU REMOVED FROM THIS BOARD. Peanutshims, you state Mr Messina has or is in the process of cleaning up his place, LEAVE IT ALONE! If you have a concern about it go here, ajcity.net, voice all your concerns and be happy your contributing to your community. Let's hope you have a violation free, happy homestead. As soon as I sort all these pictures out by address, I'll let you know. Dalley007, you should, and will be removed from this forum, you brought the personal attacks to this forum, complete with someone's location, that's a big NO, NO HERE! The webmaster keeps track of your ip address, well, he will tell you the rest. Mr Messina, clean and organize your place, be happy, and don't let the few people here get to you. Returning personal attacks lowers yourself to their level, and you would have to apply for a city permit, and go through P&Z, to dig a hole that deep. You and I both know how long that would take! EVERYONE, if you have something PERSONAL, take it to the person, or to the proper city department. Ya'all have a nice evening.
Ed Dison
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