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> Arizona Public Forums > Apache Junction Public Issues Forum > Residents bring new perspective to boarding issue

Residents bring new perspective to boarding issue
 
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horselover2
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 Posted: Sun May 10th, 2009 01:17 am
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Hey Peanut,

It appears to me by reading all of these blogs, there are only a select two people that have attacked the ranch in question.  Dalley007 and a neighbor.  I beleive these are individuals that have some sort of vendetta against the messina's personally.  You should take a ride around the City, I have to agree, there are worst places out there.  I just don't understand why all the focus is on this one stable.  Doesn't make sense.  Maybe we should all stick to the issues of the new/old codes and enforcing them to make everyone who owns horses period responsible, not just the boarding stables.  Let's stop the personal attacks.  It's really get old.  Just leave people alone and let the city do the enforcing.

 

eric j messina
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 Posted: Sun May 10th, 2009 12:28 am
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first off the only real opinion that matters to me is that of my boarders.Comments made from annonoumus people mean nothing have the nuts to post your real name.There is no need on your part to feel sorry for my horses in there stall they have full shade  plenty of food un like some ranches both residential and commercial but there is no code for that so its not an issue.no horse was in fresh manure the babies were in a double stall they went out into the uncovered part and got muddy and stayed mudy as babies will so to your accusation go f yourself. there are other ranches that use the dry manure as bedding and they are very respected ranches the  other manure was piled in an unused area behind the stalls then removed by tractor and trailer when there was a full trailer which is common on most ranches now i have removed all manure even the dry stuff  so i hope i don't see manure at other places or ill be sure to write about it any one of you were more than welcome to stop and talk to me with your concerns if they were truly concerns but that would take a real person to do that. I decided to take a ride today to look at other ranches and wow it was shocking that things that are said about our ranch exist at others even ones that you praise looking arount the city i see many other places of concern.Lets talk about junk piled in front of houses drive down cortez and look at Gails front there is stuff piled in the front  and in her defense its not the only house on the street that does.if all of you were truly concerned you would have stopped and confronted me face to face you are all big people when you write.  As i said the only people that i give a sh*t about what they think are the ones that board here and that of my neibors if they had made there concerns known to me  i haave other neibors thet have a different opinion of us .and my i don't care what you right i know what goes on  at our ranch here and its in the best interest of the horses.we have rescue horses and have had horses boarded for the city here. feel free to introduce yourselves to me at p and z mtg and counsel mt as i will attend most of them from now on.also don't bring my neighbors into it you don't need to do there talking for them there has already been enough said between us that didn't need to be said here so don't fuel the fire on there account stand up for yourself im sure they don't need you to do there talking.For now on they are free to contact me with there issues as soon as there is a problem so talk for yourself not them i hope to mt all of you and would be more than happy to continur this in person feel free to drive by later i plan to drag my areana maby you will choke on the dust when you have your nose were it dosent belong

peanutshims
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 Posted: Sat May 9th, 2009 09:07 pm
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Messina, friends are few but wonderful hang on to those you have

peanutshims
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 Posted: Sat May 9th, 2009 09:00 pm
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okay messina, answer for everyone what your place looked like until very recently and be honest, it looked like Sh---!!!! It was a eyesore and manure patch from one end to the other , people even felt sorry for the horses!!and your neighbors. Just driving by was an assault on the senses. You can use your neighbor as an example, but boy when she responds all heck breaks loose and you dont care for that!!Most of  the stables are run clean and neat with very little manure or anything else to complain about , Why is it yours is the one being brought up constantly, if there is smoke, well then  folks there must be a fire somewhere!!

Peanut

eric j messina
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 Posted: Sat May 9th, 2009 05:32 am
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Hey Dalley ,

For your 411, you should check out the City of Apache Junctions rodeo grounds, you know the one Gail stated she help build in 1994.  On the north side where the horse stalls are...guess what they use to hold the horse stalls together with and to secure the gates with....Yes....that right... Baling twine!!!!  image that.  Since you brought it up and have such a problem with baling twine, we just wanted you to go down and take a look.  Maybe now you can harass the City of Apache Junction they way you did with us.  We would love to supply you with a picture, but since you like to drive around checking out boarding facilties we thought you could take a ride down to the rodeo grounds to see it for yourself.  In case you are not sure where the City of Apache Junction Rodeo Grounds is located, here are the cross streets.  Tomahawk/Lost Dutchman.

Regards

 

 

Last edited on Sat May 9th, 2009 06:09 am by eric j messina

johnnyk597
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 11:59 pm
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I agree with Gina, Let's not put up to many horse boarding facilities in one area. The Y (so called) is supposed to be horse protected area. Let's put them all in there and then no one can complain if they build a big bucks house because this is the horse communities area.  Should be end of story.

eric j messina
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 02:45 pm
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after taking all night to think about i fell i have nothing to say to you personly so do not call or come over at this point you did not have to get involved to the extent you did. I still wonder why dally 007 dosent have the ba**s to respond herself she started the personal attacks on our ranch and i responded to that.  the examples i used about you  were only  examples if the things i said refering to you truly bothered me enuf i would have confrunted you. borowing things was never an issue the birds were annoying but it still wasnt enugh to stop you from what you like to do. but the personal attacke about our ranch and the care of the animals was an attack that needed defending you would have been better off staying out of it and letting dally 007 confrunt me. we have very happy boarders that are more than happy trusting us with there horse we have many very seinor horses that we care for  and make there life as comfortable as possible till they die so if that means lettintg the dry manure build up so they have a fluffy bed to lie in and stand on  NO BODY WILL TAKE THAT COMFORT FROM THEM i have boarders that have me move the dry fluffy manure into there stalls to make better footing for there lamanitic horse and this is from the direct request of the farrier.as far as trailers i could verry well if i chose to line them up along the driveway along the dirt road but i choos to put most of my things in the back corner so as it is not seen and  am making areas to put them that will be even further from view. as for the sheds they art even seen from your house.Why is it you can have trailers piles of wood,telaphone poles on your property but because i have a license its an issue for me. I dont care what others do on there property why should all of you concern yourselfs with what i do on mine.The anonomus complaint to the city last year that was made about telaphone poles in the street went nowwere boy people should realy use there name when making complaints.Im sure other complaints will do the same as that one did. I still would like dalley 007 to step up and do there own talking if they realy exist rather than u kathy doing it for them it did nothing for our relation ship as neibors that you did there defending for them. as for p ans z mtg if you all had shown up at more than !1 you would have seen the lack of leadership amoung that board  it seems that there needs to be a overhaul of that commities leadership this not only pertains to horse issues but from what has been observed it pertains to all issues i truly think this needs to be reviewed and this is not only my observation but that of many.with that said i have nothing to discuss with you on the phone or in person the damage is done when our ranch was attacked ill let the opinions of my boarders dictate how my ranch is run not that of people looking in from the fences .i wonder what all you busybody drive by lookers will do when we put up a solid wall..

eric j messina
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 01:04 pm
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Kathy,

As far as any City Meetings -  Eric has gone to every city meeting whether it pertained to boarding or not.  You wouldn't know that unless you were there.  Ed Dison is correct when he says we should have settled any issues you may have had with us over the fence.  But clearly that is not what happened.  You and you alone decided to go a different route.  And clearly all you have done is bash us and our business.  And I am sorry, but we will defend to the end.  And as far as being friends, friends don't do what you have done to us.  And you are right, listing everything we have done for each other is petty.  I could have listed a whole lot more, but didn't, I was only trying to show others that you never had an issue with us until now.  Why now??? 

Wendy

 

Kathie
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 03:08 am
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Messinas, I only went to the meeting, I was never on anyone's side. You decided  I was taking sides, I'm not. I tried to call you last night and you never returned my call. Gina doesn't have anything to do with this, is she so good she can talk for every one. I think Mr disen is right and we need to settle our despute over the fence like friends, because last time I checked we were friends. I'm not going to go into all the things we did for you and you did for us because it's petty. As for Mr disen saying I don't go to all of the meetings, you're right, I don't think any of us go unless there's something that pertains to us. And the reason I don't go is because I have alot of pain and at night it's worse. And if you'll notice, I could only stay an hour and had to leave. So lets stop all this nonsense and talk tomorrow. And yes we are trying to take care of the pidgeon problem. Respecfully, your neighbor.

 

 

eric j messina
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 02:07 am
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Kathy,

Wow!!!  Where did all this come from?

First of all we have live here for 4 1/2 years.  I want to address your blog one by one.  So here goes.

The baby horses when separated from their mothers were in a 28 X 26 stall with a cover 16 X 24.  The babies were moved because one had been sold. 

As for the manure - our stalls are raked out 1 -2 times dailey.   We are a boarding facility and it takes a little more time cleaning than it would take you to clean for your 4 horses. The manure used to be piled outside of the stall until we came by with the tractor.  Now the manure is raked out and removed dailey.  Look out side your window and please tell me where you see a pile of manure....

As far as taken care of our horses - When was the last time you took care of any of our animals.  Our gates are locked.  We have had a caretaker for the past 1 1/2 who takes care of our animals when we are away.

The birds - Now lets think about this.  I was there the day you neighbors to the west who had just recently moved in yelled over to you to "Stop Feeding the Birds they are shi%#&ing on my roof".   Also you neighbor the the south has complained about you feeding the piegons.  Your own husband has complained to us about you feeding the birds.  Should I go on?

Borrowing of trailer- Yes, Kathy, you have borrowed our trailer to use to pick up hay for your horses, and telephone poles for your yard.  And I agree with you, we have borrowed you tractor and you have borrowed ours.  That I thought is what neighbors do.

You didn't seem to have a problem with our place when  you brought you mare over to breed with our stud.  As I see it, you got a free breeding ($350.00 stud Fee) And a beautil baby horse.  As a matter of fact, I beleive your baby was born on a Friday night, and Eric help deliver it.  WOW!!!  Isn't that what neighbors/friends do????  We also never asked you for a dime for the breeding.  We also as neighbors/friends went out to dinner on many occasions, and motorcycle rides.  Why all of a sudden  do you feel the need to bash us and our business??? 

As for our trailers- We do  not live in a HOA community, We own the boat, horse trailers, flat bed and dump trailer and can park them any where we want to on our property.  As neighbors/friends why didn't you say something to us?  And like Ed said, why did you wait 3 years to say something.  I can Guess.....Gina..... You two must be speaking again.  You are so on and off one never knows....

I'm sorry you feel the way you do.  Truly sorry... I wish it didn't go this far.....But it did...My hope is that we all can agree on sticking to the real issues and coming to some happy medium.

The P & Z meeting - I beleive you showed up there to support Gina but when you saw your neighbor (Eric) there, that is what made you uncomfortable.  It wasn't that you had stage fright.  If you truly have a problem you should have stayed and addressed your concerns.  As you stated you have been invited in, Please go ahead and speak your heart out, because WE are not going anywhere.

Regards

The Messina's

 

 

 

 

 

 

eric j messina
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 01:16 am
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let me know what you decide on the property

Last edited on Fri May 8th, 2009 01:17 am by eric j messina

eric j messina
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 01:15 am
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The property is located just south of the house for sale on tepee there is a sign on the fence that sais horses only i talked to the listing realator and they are very anxious to talk i walked the property and it isnt bad considering the flood zone it would suit your needs.I can mt you there and walk it if you would like and i will get you the phone number.

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 12:29 am
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Wow! Now we have neighbors at each other! Knowing both of you, I ask that you act like neighbors, lean over the fence and talk about a solution to your dislikes and come up with a solution that suits you both. We, as horse people really need to come together on these issues before us and stop the in-fighting! Kathie, why have you waited three years to bring this up! Someone please show me a code that states bailing twine cannot be used for securing a fence! What is the proper depth of horse manure? What is reasonable? Why does everyone wait till now to express their displeasure's with this situation? Eric, sprinkle rice on your roof, the pigeons love it, end of problem. While I'm here, what is the problem, is it boarding in general, or just certain things? Kathy, I know for a fact that you've known about the meetings on this since the beginning! Where were you? Why did you wait until the last meeting to show up? Gina, welcome to horse boarding! Your newly acquired license just raised your property value! As an ACTIVE license holder, if the "wish list" passes as is, you get to submit a site plan showing where you are going to park horse trailers, this can be done at developmental services. On the other hand, if further modifications should occur, such as that screening of trailers you talked about, you can do that yourself, just make sure it's on your site plan. Now you won't have any problems with this, it's easy, but if you do, Rudy, or Brad will give you hand. Make sure you show everything as it is now, and if you add anything be sure to update it, wouldn't want any problems with the P&Z Police. Then again if you didn't want the hassle you could  deactivate the license. Mr Messina, you talk of a piece of property, 2 1/2 acres? Flood zone? This exactly what I have been looking for! As you all know, I am for the horse, and very active in the rescue and taking in of unwanted horses. I have checked with the city and to do what I would like to do, does not require a house. Vacant land, 6' horse fence all the way around, auto water, 10'x12' pasture shades, as many as I want, horses, as many as I want. Sounds great! No permits, nothing anyone can say about it. Get me the address please.

 

Ed Dison

Kathie
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 10:27 pm
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Mr Messina, in reading your post to Daly 007 on May 4 and again on May 6th to Daly 007 where you proceded to call her a liar. I can no longer sit by and stay quiet when I have seen for myself exactly what she is saying. Those babies have been left to grow and lay in the small stall since they were separated from their mothers with manure well above what would be considered acceptable. Yet again I sat and said nothing.The babies were not moved into the clean stall until the night of the P&Z at appox. 10pm. Any manure that was removed was put in large piles next to the stalls and was left for months, some of it is still there. Again I said nothing. Daly brought up the baleing twine on your fence, and she is correct. And yes, I am your neighbor that's how I know all this, I'm been here for 3 years. And taken care of your horses on numerous occasions, and watered your horses at times when you were home and they had no water. Yes, Eric I do feed the quails and the birds, and the pidgeons come too, if you could suggest a bird seed that the pidgeons don't care for and where I might purchase it, I'd be glad to comply. Yes, Eric on numerous occasions we have borrowed your flat bed trailor, as neighbors we've borrowed back and forth, but that does not mean I like looking at all the trailor sitting there, nor all the storage sheds. All these things that I am telling you now I should have said at the P&Z meeting, but public speaking is not my comfort zone. And still I would have said nothing until you responded to Daly 007 and invited me in. Respectfully, your neighbor.

Kathie
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 09:55 pm
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Katy, I too received a flyer, but it was given to me by a person handing them out. It said to show up at meeting if your property was important to you, and to speak up. I was not comfortable speaking up, so I left. But after reading what's going on, I think it's time to speak up.

katy8520
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 07:50 pm
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It appears to me that the person reponsible for the flyer being left at Gina's front door is the one trying to turn up the furnace.  What about this flyer - - is Gina the only property owner to receive one?  How many other people in our community received this flyer?  Was it distributed only in a select neighborhood or was it distributed to every neighborhood that contains a boarding stable.  I live in close proximity to one of the licensed boarding stables and I didn't get one.  Sounds like a concentrated effort on someone's part to get people to speak out against the boarding stables.  What do you think?

Gina
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 03:57 pm
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Good Morning to you also Mr.Dison , Yes I have no problem doing this in a open forum, Do you? And I promise not to take it as a personal attack unless other wise told! But please make it clear , as there seems to be some doubt as to if I can read or not !
Mr. Dison there you go again with me and my group, where and who are they, (wish they would take over some of this typing) I am the one who has questions and I do not see another signature on any of my blogs , Do you? So please in the future address me ,as there is no group! I am a big girl and can take the heat, since I am the one who seems to have turned on the furnace.

Respectfully

Gina 

Last edited on Thu May 7th, 2009 04:23 pm by Gina

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 03:41 pm
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Good morning Ms. Russell, Do you really want to do this here? These blogs always make everything look like personal attacks. I will try to keep it down. My first concern is the right to have horses, and the horses themselves. Do you and your friends understand that more laws and codes will eventually lead to no horses? The way property is maintained dictates it's value, not horses. You as well as I know that in "the realty world", "horse property, means you can list that place for more money. You and your "group" really amaze me, boarding going on around you for years, and now you express your concerns? Drive down any street in this city in the winter and tell me how many RV's are parked on private, residential lots that don't have horses, make a list of lots that don't meet the current "property maintenance standards" that don't have horses on them, do your concerns include these also? In my 3 years as chairman of SHA, I have noticed that the only time people come together is when THEY have a problem. If we could all come together before the problems arise, we would have no problems. SHA is contacted all the time when someone has a horse related issue, they immediately join as a member, and after their issue is resolved, do they join again? I have been to, have relatives, and friends, that own boarding facilities, or board in the states of  CA,LA,WA,NM,TX,CO,NV, also in Costa Rica, and Mexico. Oh, and AZ. I, along with a few others from SHA, plan to have someone at every meeting the city has, whether it's a P&Z, or counsel meeting. After all of this, it's obvious the horse community needs to keep a watchful eye out. Now as for your list, you have access just as P&Z, to most of this information, I will try to answer all, but remember, as in real life, common sense has to be applied to everything.

1) The suggested minimum stall size for 1000 lb horse is 12'x12'. If you have 50 stalls, this would use around 8.2% of a 2 1/2 acre lot.

2) This is one of those common sense ones. Gina, how many horses do you have? How many horses does your trailer hold? Do you store your trailer on the same property as your horses? When you drive by a boarding stable, have you counted the horses? The trailers? Would you want your trailer stored across town? Why not?

3) This is one that confused everyone. Do you realize this was for people like you? This was to make a provision in the code to make it possible, if you go back to P&Z, to get a CUP for this. Not all facilities want this. The ones that do, have to go through the whole process, and once again, common sense, the property would have to be able to support it. Those that are now allowing RV's may not be able to continue doing it.

4) Do you fold your horses up and store them in the garage at night? Do you check on your horses at 2am? When was the last time you went on a moonlight ride in the summer when it was 108 degrees in the daytime? Common sense, there are laws  in place already regarding noise, lights, ect. Why would we want to make more? These apply here, just as they apply to a loud party.

5) You do understand that these are "PRIVATE FACILITIES". Unless you are a guest, or board there, you are not welcome. This is no different than Dollar Storage on the Trail, unless you rent a storage unit, NO ENTER. These are not restaurants or retail stores, but I'm sure the owners will figure it out themselves if they want to please their boarders. Also ADA does not apply here.

6) This one really irritates me! I really thought P&Z would look at current codes! We, SHA, personally dealt with this, see J&K stables at the court house. The codes are in place UNDER AJ ANIMAL CONTROL CODES. To have a separate code just for boarding stables would require the city to hire someone qualified. At this time you could submit a plan, but no one at the city could approve it!

7) Do I need to notify you, if I move in next door to you, and bring my 58 horses, have a 1 1/4, and don't board, do I need to notify you if I have a party and stay within the laws regarding noise and lights?

8) Do you have a fence around your trailer? Park you trailer next to a 6' fence, then a 4 1/2' fence. What do you see? My neighbors have not one, but three tractors, if it bothered me I would put up block wall. What you have on your property may not be appeasing to your neighbors. Common sense applies.

9) When you have visitors, where do they park?

10) you forgot this one! Dust, covered under PM10, You state you can read, look it up.

 

With the boarding going on around you, I would think you would favor these codes over the current codes. I think this city needs to ENFORCE the codes it has, not keep making new ones, don't you? Let's not have the "I like it, but not in my backyard" mentality. This "wish list" was put together with the help from developmental services, and I can tell you, the boarding owners were not happy with everything that was written in for YOU. I'm sure there will be more, so once again you can blog, or contact me direct, you have my numbers.

 

Ed Dison

Gina
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 04:31 am
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Mr. Dison, I do not hide , if I do it I  own it . Yes I read the article in the Saddle up and  then went straight to the paper and asked to speak with Betty, I was given a # to call and was unable to speak with her,was also unable to leave a message as did not know an extension #. So yes I can and do read , but thank you for asking.

Lets talk about rules for boarding stables  Mr. Dison its my understanding and please correct me if I am incorrect . This is the Stables wish list 

1)No limit of horses or land coverage

2)horse trailer per each horse boarded parked and stored

3 )RVs parked and lived in for 6 months + per yr. (In a residential neighborhood) 

4)Open 24-7

5)No supplied potty room

6)no manure or fly plans

7) No need to notify neighbors of the intentions of opening a Stable next door to them

8) No fencing of any kind to camouflage trailers from neighbors 


9) vehicle for transportation while here also parked on property

And they can have as many Stables as a neighborhood has 21/2 acres, so your telling me you see no problem with this picture.

Mr. Dison  Where is the horse gonna stay?

Lets not forget about additional traffic in a residential area

When the city puts in the new rules , Who is going to enforce them,as it sits now there are no RVs allowed ,but they are still there, all winter. Horse trailers parked on property all winter. People staying on property in RVs all winter . As it stands now is this legal ? If not than ,Who enforced this?

At the P&Z meeting , wasn't I told the city does not have enough people to enforce the rules?

With this list , What is there to enforce, they can pretty much do what they want in a residential neighborhood , yet my neighbor must notify all who live around her to put up a 2 car garage on her prop.!

I do understand the dilema here , however it should work for everyone, No one wants to see horse stables go away they are needed and wanted and appreciated

by 99.9% of the people but lets work together for a common ground, and not saturate one area with stables.

Also in closing Mr. Dison to my knowledge in the Realtor Group I was the only Realtor, Does a Realtor speaking as a prop.owner intimadate ? And what was the Realtor Group that you saw?

 Again Scincerly

Gina Russell


Last edited on Thu May 7th, 2009 03:40 pm by Gina

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 02:08 am
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Gina, you sound surprised that a boarding facility could open any moment anywhere in the city. We live in a horse community. You could have a neighbor move in and bring 100 horses and the city allows this. Wouldn't you rather have codes and laws that the city can enforce in regards to stables? A lot of people took the time to put what they thought was fair, and the public was invited. Before all this there was not a lot on the books. I still question why you came to the last meeting, and the act for the newspaper. Where were you at the first meeting? You do read the newspapers correct? I'm not the only one that saw the "Realtor group" for what it was. You did read the "saddle up " article Betty Swanson wrote, right. I will repeat what I said before, ENFORCEMENT. I see more of a problem with the guy with junk all over his yard than horses. Then again I've seen someone with 2 or 3 horses that could not keep there property up as well as 50 horses at a stable. Feel free to contact me anytime, and thank you and Gail for not hiding behind factitious names.  (480) 233-3965 or ed4sha@q.com

 

Thanks, Ed Dison


eric j messina
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 Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 01:02 am
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TO DALLEY 007 IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE STOP BY AND I WOULD LOVE TO MEET YOU  SEEING YOU ARE HIDING BEHIND A MADE UP NAME  I CANNOT STOP AND SEE YOU YOU ARE INVITED TO STOP BY ANY TIME AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A FACE TO FACE DISCUSSION WITH YOU . THIS IS AN OPEN INVITATION  CALL BEFORE YOU COME BY I WANT TO ADDRESS SOME OF YOUR MADE UP ACCUSATIONS LETS SEE IF YOU ARE GOING TO STAND BEHIND THEM OR LIE TO MY FACE SHOW ME THE 5 TO 6 FEET OF MANURE. WHEN YOU LIE MAKE SURE YOU CAN BACK IT UP WITH FACT THIS WILL BE THAT LAST TIME I WASTE MY TIME ON THIS BLOG YOU ALL HAVE MY NUMBER FEEL FREE TO CALL ITS ON THE SIGN DRIVE BY AGAIN AND STOP AND WRIGHT IT DOWN

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 11:38 pm
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The codes for GR and R143 require a CUP for many things, but not Horse Boarding. Everyone that runs a boarding facility knows that if you break even on the money, your doing good. The reason this all came about was because of a complaint of horse trailers being parked a facility that were not owned by the property owner in violation of the new property maintenance codes. When city council  looked into the matter it was found out that there were very few codes regarding horse boarding. They, the city council, asked then Chairman of Superstition Horsemen's Association, Chip Wilson to form a committee, work with city staff, and come up with something that everyone could live with. The meetings were well advertised, and welcomed public input. This went on for well over a year. Most everything that was submitted currently exists in other codes, some that were submitted would require an additional CUP. My thoughts are leaning towards enforcement of current codes, not adding more. Everything  I hear from both sides rings enforcement. We are here to fight if we must to protect the rights of the horse community, and our history enforces just that. Now let's look at all the private people that have horses on what ever size piece of property. The city allows a person that has an acre of land to have as many horses as they want, are all the of them clean and to the standards that are in the codes? I personally am involved in our Equine Welfare Committee, we are called by animal control when there are problems involving horses. I go to homes that I would personally condemn, but who am I to impress my standards of living on somebody else. I am there for the horses. If I had a boarding stable I would not want to be next to someone that makes my place look bad. Working together would be the best thing, but when you sit on a board or commission, you are there to make recommendations based on current codes, laws, and regulations, and recommend those that don't exist. This didn't seem to happen in this case. The actions and statements by some of the commissioners were out of line to say the least. This is my opinion, reinforced after speaking to two county supervisors, and two mayors from other cities. This is a horse community, and hopefully will be for many years. Drive through, take a look, if you like it stop, if you don't like what you see and or smell, keep going. If anybody has anything to futher discuss your more than welcome to contact me. (480) 233-3965 or ed4sha@q.com

Ed Dison

Gail Cisty Evans
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 Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 06:23 pm
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I am the new Planning and Zoning Commissioner Chair.  I am also, horse owner, property owner,concerned citizen, ( John Pein, Gary Mulholland, John and Ruth Abbott and Gail Cisty),we were the committee that went before City Council to build the Rodeo Park in 1994. I have helped many of you with property issues in the past.  This includes Myra and Bob Polesky, who called me in a panic of what to do about the adjoining property becoming a Gated Community,  which is why I decided to apply for a Planning Commissioner.  Most horse owners would rather be riding than reading regulations from all over the country on horse boarding facilities.  I always preferred working in the background, until now.

The horse boarding committee, and Councilman Wilson made the assumption all horse owners and horse lovers want to own next to a Boarding Facility. Wrong. GR and R143 codes state that Conditional Use Permit is required in residential neighborhood for many uses including "recreational facilities".  After several years of being on P&Z and you learn about Commercial Codes and Residential Codes it becomes very clear how difficult combining these Codes together and applying them to "Commercial Boarding Facilities".  The Boarders want more rights to make more money, that effects everyones property values, in the name of the OLD West?  Their properties don't say old west, they say "How many more stalls and trailers can we fit here"  They all parked trailers last winter even though it goes against the current code.  The horse boarders want, more rights than other horse owners.

If the only responses are personal attacks against myself or others concerned enough to speak out, then that speaks volumes to the common sense and logic to the concerns of other horse owners.

The two newspapers portrayed this issue as only a Boarders issue and not the impact on other property owners. All horse owners and property owners alike should be concerned about the over crowding and appearance of Boarding Facilities.  When this started, the City said most complaints were maintenance and clean up. Has anything changed?

We need to work together as horse people. This is a difficult and complex issue that everyone in horse neighborhoods needs to be informed

Everyone has a right to speak out that lives in Apache Junction. Including Realtors, home owners, friends of friends and neighbors, retirees, anyone that owns property.

Let us work together for better zoning for everyone.  If the Boarders don't get everything they want, that does not mean anyone is against them or we want to live in Scottdale.  Nobody wants that, but if that is all you can come up with......

 

 

Gina
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 Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 03:41 pm
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Ladies, and gentlemen, had I known the extent of the malice that my having an opinion would have on the horse community I would have chosen not to have one at all, however I thought that we lived in the USA and we still were able to think and speak our thoughts. In speaking at the P&Z meeting I now read that I spoke for the chairperson, NOT TRUE! (as Mr. Dison says get your facts straight!) I love horses and the people that surround themselves with this large and wonderful animal and own 4 horses myself along with 1 bird 3 chinchillas 2 goats and several dogs and am most likely a nightmare for most neighbors who dont care for animals.

Please let me explain why I decided to see about horse boarding and about getting a license, I received a flyer on my front door stating what the Horse boarding community wants and has and if my property is important to me then I should show up and speak up at the meeting (guess you shouldn't do that unless you agree with the boarding community) Back to the lic. In the area I live there are numerous  lic. stables (all very nice and clean no complaint there) Getting a lic. is not the issue , the issue is how many lic. stables should the R-143 be allowed to have in an area of less than a 1/2 mile. Should someone in the city at least look and see how many are where? Should the city put a limit? This was my 1st visit to P&Z meeting and if this is what you get, I am not surprised more people dont show up and voice any of their concerns, obviously their concerns are not important only those of others. Mr. Dison sit down and explain to me why my concerns are unimportant and yours are 1st and formost, I would love to take the time to understand your views. Attacking someone has never been the correct way to approach a  problem it just leads to further problems, and nothing is then accomplished , But with all views on the table maybe there can be a dinfinative solution to appease everyone.

Sincerely GR

Last edited on Wed May 6th, 2009 06:39 pm by Gina

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 06:56 am
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dalley007, If you live where you claim to live, why would a stable on 4th and Acacia bother you. Do you drive around town looking for things to complain about? What about the private home/ horse owner, does it bother you if their property is not up to your standards? I'm certainly not in over my head, and I can assure you I'm not drowning, fast or slow. Ms. Russell, selling agent, for a $1,500,00.00 home, stated that boarding facilities were the cause of low property values in this neighbor hood. I'm going to check my notes, I believe our P&Z chairperson stated something along the same lines as Ms. Russell. I really think you, and your friends have stepped in something thats going to take some doing to scrap off your shoes. Believe me, I do my research.

 

Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horseman's Association

eric j messina
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 Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 06:20 am
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First off I would trade your dust problem any day for the problem I have when my neibor feeds the piegions every day not only are they sh*t*ng on my house,stalls,roofs,they carry dieses and now they are trying to build nest try dealing with that im sure you wouldnt enjoy it.Were is the 5 to 6 feet of manure that you say the baby is in get real  learn to measure i have no idea what you are talking about the stalls are cleaned of the fresh manure at leaste 1 time a day and most days 2 times if your going to be nosy get it straight. the baby has bailing twine  which last i looked was not illegal. It gets put up  anywere the baby possibly would be to hold the fencing so he wouldnt get out of his stall we use it as a safty measure so  they wont cut themselves or poke an eye  like could happen with twisted wire  and as a second layer of defense on all stall latches so if the latch gets open the gate will stay closed . As for trailer all are new or almost new with 1 exception that is far away from anything and it sure dosent bother anybody when they want to borrow them then it is the least of any concerns which is a commom request from my neibors .I hope the eyesore of a unfinished house that i have to look at isnt bought buy complainers like you .Also lets address flys im not sure if many others have invested $1600 in a fly controll system it seems we are doing our part if i could only make it work for the piegons we would be allset. Maby the solution would be to get a few partners and buy the 2.5 acres on wicckiup rd that is for sale for $71000 and start a ranch there that way all the ranches are in ! spot. isnt it funny that we have a million dolllar house next to one of the lowest priced large lots in the city.Most of the boarders have been  here for over a year we are not thr cheapest so they must like all that we offer . Good luck

dalley007
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 Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 03:35 am
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I THINK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU ESPECIALLY IS IN OVER YOUR HEADS AND DROWNING FAST!!!!! FIRST OF ALL, I AM NOT AGAINST ANY BOARDING STABLE PERIOD! THE ONLY ONES I AM AGAINST RIGHT NOW ARE  THE ONES THAT HAVE BAILING TWINE HOLDING PENS TOGETHER, AND BABY HORSES LAYING OF 6 FOOT PILES OF HORSE MANURE!!   SECOND OF ALL THERE WAS NOT A BOARDING STABLE ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME WHEN I BUILT MY HOME, FOR THE FIRST 12 YEARS THERE WAS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND HE HAD ONE HORSE.  AND, I AM NOT AGAINST HORSE BOARDING STABLES AT ALL, I AM THANKFUL THE NO FLY ZONE IS ACROSS FROM ME AND THE QUARTER CIRCLE BOOT RANCH IS DOWN THE STREET BECAUSE THEY ARE THE CLEANEST, NICEST, AND MOST CONSIDERATE PLACES IVE COME TO KNOW, HOWEVER, THE STABLES THAT PILE HORSE MANURE 5-6FEET HIGH, USE BAILING TWINE TO HOLD PENS AND FENCING TOGETHER, AND THE HORSE TRAILERS ARE RUN DOWN AND SCATTERED HERE THERE AND EVERYWHERE ON THE PROPERTY ARE THE STABLES THAT ARE A HINDERANCE, AN EYESORE AND GIVE THE BAD NAME TO APACHE JUNCTION.  WHEN I LEFT MY HOUSE LAST EVENING AT 8PM THERE WERE RIDERS IN THE ARENA ACROSS THE STREET AND THE DUST FROM THE ARENA WAS AS HIGH AS THE ARENA LIGHTS AND BL0WING MY WAY WAS UNBELIEVABLE, I DONT NEED TO BREATH THAT VALLEY FEVER DISEASE FILLED DUST AND DIRT AND THE PEOPLE RIDING IN THE ARENA SHOULDNT HAVE TO EITHER, IF THE ARENA WAS MAINTAINED AND WATERED AND THE DUST WAS KEPT TO A MINIMUM THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.  IT IS JUST SOME THINGS THAT BOARDING STABLES SHOULD HAVE TO MAINTAIN TO A STANDARD AS WOULD MYSELF, MS. RUSSELL OR ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS A CONSCIENCE AND CONSIDERATION FOR THEIR NEIGHBORS AND FOR THE APPEARANCE OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. SO YOU ALL NEED TO GET
Y O U R FACTS STRAIGHT AND STOP b**chIN AT EVERYONE AND START TALKING WITH EVERYONE TO COME TO A REASONABLE FRIENDLY AGREEMENT!!!! GROW UP!!!!!!!


AS FAR AS MS. RUSSELL GOES, AT NO TIME DID SHE SAY SHE WAS AGAINST BOARDING STABLES, SHE STATED SHE FELT THEY NEEDED TO BE HELD AT A HIGHER STANDARD THAN THE ONE PERCENT OF BAD, DIRTY, ONES LIKE THE ONE ON 4TH AND ACACA.  AND AT NO TIME DID MS RUSSELL SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ANY PROPERTY VALUES GOING DOWN BECAUSE OF BOARDING STABES, THE ONLY ONES THAT DRAG DOWN THE ALREADY ECONOMY STRICKEN HOME SALES WOULD BE BOARDING STABLES LIKE THE ONE ON 4TH AND ACACIA,

Last edited on Wed May 6th, 2009 03:47 am by dalley007

horselover2
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 Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 02:44 am
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Gina and friend,

Maybe you should stick to what you think you do best (selling houses).  I would guess that if you were any good at what you do, you would realize that when the housing market was high, there were boarding facilities.  Why is it you want to blame the boarding facilities for dragging down the values of homes.  Do your research, it is all the foreclosures driving the market down not the boarding facilities.  Check that out with some real well know people in Apache Junction who sell homes for a living.  Not just one or two homes a year.  Some of these businesses were here and established way before you and your friend moved into town.  If nieghbors like you and your friend have a problem with a boarding faciltiy, why don't you address the problem with them.  Instead you have to play your child like games.  Run down to the city, purchase a license and wave it in every one face.  You need to get you facts straight.  You have no idea what licensed boarding facilities have to go through.  You only applied for a boarding license. Big Deal!! Why don't you try running a facilty.  We are held to higher standards.  Something you wouldn't know about.  Perhaps you and your friend should consider sticking to selling homes.  I think you are way over your head here.  :D

Christa_Rizzi
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 Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 06:54 pm
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My husband and I came to Apache Junction to get away from the "city" lifestyle. We don't own horses but loved seeing horsey people riding into town. We bought our home here to assimilate into the lifestyle not change it.

 Apache Junction is one of the few equestrian friendly communities that haven't sold old to the highest bidder.

It's our heritage and rural lifestyle that attract people from across the nation. Why are some so determined to abolish the lifestyle we want to protect?

Open spaces, rural life style and horses are NOT dirty words..

I'll take the aroma of my neighbors horses over snobbery any day..

If you don't want to live in an equestrian community why move to one and expect the community to change to your liking.


Christa Rizzi

Last edited on Wed May 6th, 2009 04:19 pm by Christa_Rizzi

eric j messina
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 Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 05:44 pm
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were was Gina  and her other realator friends when all the other meetings were going on.There has been plenty of time to address the issue.It seemes funny that after Gail Evans brings up false remarkes about driving down Teepe rd and not being able to roll down her window because of the amonia smell which was a lie and a made up remark i ride down that road on a motorcycle and her remark could not be further from the truth.That all of a sudden othere realators show up to do Gails talking. Lets look at how many lots that these realators have sold that got split and all of a sudden a neibor that had 1 house next to them all of a sudden has 2.Lets look at the economy all houses are down when the market was good it didnt matter were the house was now the market sucks and its the foreclosures and short sales that are killing the values.Dont be an idiot and overbuild your house if the neiborhood wont support its value .Lets look at how madam chair Gail Evans conducts a mtg its appoling and a joke  and she is up there laughing and thinks its a joke there is no orginization and she doesnt know mtg protocol she  is making issues extremely personal when it should not be and does not know the way that a mtg should go.She realy should not be othe head chair or for that matter on the  commitie views should be bias not personal. get a clue on how to run a mtg if you cant you should step down or be removed and put someone in the position that knows what they are doing 

Ed Dison
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 Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 09:19 am
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What really is needed here is a look at the relationship with these people coming forward at the last minute and our P&Z chairperson. Let's see, a home for sale at a modest $1,500,000.00, horse property bought cheaply to build it on, complain about existing stables that were there before this house was built, and let's not forget about the listing agent. Did Gail put up the $50.00 too? After hearing Mrs Evans speak in what I took as her personal standpoint on the issue, I was not surprised at these so-called "public views" being brought up at the next meeting. I really think, and will suggest that our Mayor and Counsel review this matter along with our city attorney. And as far as just filling out a piece of paper and spending a couple of bucks and bingo your a stable? Good luck, ask any licensed boarding facility, there are lots of codes, getting the license is the easy part, and remember, their job is to issue licenses. I simply walked in the license office and spent a couple of bucks, and walked out with a construction license. No one came to look at my six foot fence in front my house or anything else! General public? I think not!

 

Ed Dison, Chairman, Superstition Horsemen's Association

AJ Editor
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 Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 08:12 pm
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Residents bring new
perspective to boarding issue


Citizens question lax requirements


By Terrance Thornton
Independent Newspapers


Editor’s note: To read the full proposals for yourself download the attachment to this thread.


The Apache Junction Planning and Zoning Commission Tuesday, April 28 unanimously made a recommendation to Apache Junction City Council to approve 13 proposals regulating horse boarding operations within city limits.


Over the past two years, all 15 licensed Apache Junction horse-boarding operations have given input on what ought to be included in the governing document and several public hearings have been held over the past year for input on the matter.


Among the list of 13 proposals, trailer uses, caretaker and camping regulations and lot coverage topped the list of concerns expressed by commission members, but until now the general public has voiced little opposition to the proposed rules.


Public opinion


Gina Russell of Apache Junction called to question the requirements for establishing a licensed Apache Junction commercial horse-boarding facility.


According to city code, all you need is 2.5 acres, $50 and willing to fill out a brief form.


"I was shocked that all it takes is $50 and 2.5 acres," she told the commission during the April 28 public hearing. "What’s the plan for enforcement of these rules you are now sending down?"


Ms. Russell says she was not asked about health, safety or equipment standards when applying for her business license to operate a horse-boarding facility within city limits of Apache Junction.


Ms. Russell said all she did was fill out an online form and turn it into the Apache Junction City Clerk’s Office and "I am a horse-boarding facility."


Ms. Rusell, who owns 2.5 acres of land, owns five horses, but does not want to start a horse-boarding facility. She says she wanted to illustrate a point that all it takes is a couple of bucks and some paperwork.


The only real stipulation for a legal Apache Junction horse-boarding facility is for the enterprise to reside on at least 2.5 acres, city code states.


This is a cause for concern for Apache Junction resident Cheryl Breiland.


"Honestly, I agree with that, but I specifically chosen not to move next to a horse boarding facility," she said April 30. "But on three of the four sides of me there is property large enough to do that," she added.


Ms. Breiland says there is a stark discrepancy between city requirements for a private homeowner and a licensed horse-boarding facility despite the fact — in Apache Junction — the two are often found side by side in residential areas.


"It will be very appealing to the eye, but I have to get everybody’s permission," she said of a city requirement requiring her to inform her neighbors within 300 feet if she wants to build an accessory structure like a garage on her property. "Do you see the discrepancy there?"


Ms. Breiland says a licensed Apache Junction horse-boarding facility does not have to inform anyone of its operations because of the label "commercial."


"Someone who wants to be a horse-boarding facility can apply and start their business without any permission from their neighbors," she said. "I specifically purchased a home that was not next to a horse boarding facility, yet those three parties (next to me) could put in a horse-boarding facility."


Three of the four property owners who own property adjacent to Ms. Brieland could — if they wanted to — start a horse-boarding facility because they have more than 2.5 acres, $50 and willing to fill out an online form, she said.


Ms. Russell says she worries the city of Apache Junction may be creating special rules for business owners just because they are associated with horses.


"Please make this better for our neighborhood, not just the horse boarders," she told the commission.


Citing several issues she says are typically found at area horse-boarding operations, Ms. Russell says she wants these local business owners to be held to a higher standard.


"If you want Apache Junction to get better you have to start somewhere," she said at her home in northern Apache Junction April 29. "I am for the horses, but I want the horse boarders to do it right."


Lack of enforcement is a real issue, but not having any rules is problematic, Ms. Russell says.


"If this is what is acceptable ... it is going to get worse," she said of her personal excursions to area horse-boarding facilities with 5-foot high piles of dung and the lack of a maintained property.


P&Z Deliberations


Over the past four months the Apache Junction Planning and Zoning Commission has deliberated the possible impact of these regulations or lack thereof to the greater community of Apache Junction.


"We are dealing with 40,000 people ..." said Charles Bunten, P&Z vice chairman. "There is going to be a total dissatisfaction."


Mr. Bunten said there were several areas of the proposed regulations that were very "ambiguous" and ought to be better defined. The largest of the issues was what activities ought to be required for a conditional-use permit.


"There is nothing on the books, but we have to start somewhere," said P&Z Commissioner Theresa Nesser following the public hearing. "It’s not like it is now."


Right now there is no CUP required for any activity done on a horse-boarding facility, city code states. The proposed ordinances will change that if city council opts to approve the commission’s April 28 recommendation.


When it comes to resident concerns, which have been minimal up to this point, P&Z Commissioner Pat Richmond says residents who live next to a horse-boarding facility ought to be prepared for what comes with those businesses despite living in residential zones of the city.


"If you live next to a horse-boarding facility there are just things you naturally are going to expect to see," she explained during the public hearing. "Horse trailers are going to be one of them."


Before the vote, as many in the audience wearing cowboy hats and spurs groaned, the commissioners began to question more of the proposed regulations and how they ought to be altered.


Ms. Richmond and Commissioner Joe Durbala said they felt as if it was time for the issue to be sent to Apache Junction City Council.


"We are riding this poor horse to death. I don’t want to start picking things out," Ms. Richmond said moments before putting the matter to a vote. "Six months down the line, we will still disagree with it."


Commissioner Durbala agreed.


According to meeting agendas received by the Apache Junction/Gold Canyon Independent, the 13 proposed horse-boarding regulations are not on the either the work session or regular meeting agenda for May 4 and May 5.


Registered members are encouraged to comment on this topic by clicking “reply” in the upper right corner of this entry. Comments posted online may be used in an upcoming edition of the Apache Junction/Gold Canyon Independent. For more news, visit http://circulation.newszap.com to purchase an e-Subscription. As an e-Subscriber, you will be able to view the actual newspaper pages online, including every story, feature, advertisement and photo

Attachment: Addendum for PZ PH 4-28-09.doc (Downloaded 6 times)


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