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J&JFarms Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 19th, 2009 08:57 am |
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Elliot,
Your facetious retort is neither productive nor is it an exposition of decorum.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 19th, 2009 03:27 am |
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| The one tooth possy is back!
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OMG! Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 18th, 2009 09:11 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: Not a thing is absurd!
Ask yourself . Why has there never been a Council drivin Referendum?
Tell me one good reason? With all the difficult issues they could not put one to the public . The voters are stupid is what they think.Simple really.
WHY?
EF
Why indeed.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/71161
Last edited on Sat Jul 18th, 2009 09:22 pm by OMG!
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 01:37 am |
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Not a thing is absurd!
Ask yourself . Why has there never been a Council drivin Referendum?
Tell me one good reason? With all the difficult issues they could not put one to the public . The voters are stupid is what they think.Simple really.
WHY?
EF
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 05:28 am |
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Good - I am glad that you are involved in helping people out.
But you still couldn't pass up an opportunity to take a swipe at the city with these absurd statements:
I spend years doing petitions to bring important matters to a vote of the citizens .
Most times stopped by City Attorney Joel Stern ( I guess because he can) forget public right to vote on important issues . Mr Coleman is God so what he says go's!
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 02:47 am |
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Mrs K
You can find my wife and I helping every third sat at the Genisis project feed the hungry program on Palo Verde. (Methodist Church).
I spent almost two years VOLUNTEERING for planning and zoning . My record of this is now been used against me with lies and distortions . so be it.
I am out three nights a week picking up trash in palm springs subdivision with my wife . cop saw us the other night asked what we were doing . (very friendly)
I spend years doing petitions to bring important matters to a vote of the citizens .
Most times stopped by City Attorney Joel Stern ( I guess because he can) forget public right to vote on important issues . Mr Coleman is God so what he says go's!
Need any more?
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Christa_Rizzi Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:35 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: What makes your opinion so worthwhile?
Education ? success in writing ? anything ? How about just posting your name?
Yeah - I thought so none of the above!
EF
Elliot,
MRSK's opinion is just as worthwhile as yours..if you don't like her opinion you have the option to to put down the mouse and step away from the keyyboard..
I remember people stepping up on your behalf several times when others didn't want your voice heard ..
Christa Rizzi
Last edited on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 09:03 pm by Christa_Rizzi
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johnnyk597 Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:26 pm |
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| He has probably not Mrs.K. Ef is more of a " scratch my back and to H*** with yours"type of person. I just changed my voting registration from Democratic to Independent in the last week or so. Being from Chicago originally and moving here has really opened my eyes a bit as far as politics's goes. Just couldn't make the jump all the way to the other side tho, so I figured the middle was a good step. Don't let EF get under your skin sooner or later he'll have to stop the b**chin' because pretty soon he'll have nothin' to complain about. The way the country is taking it's direction, the gestapo or Russian secret police will or something to that effect will arrest him and take him to jail where the warden will use a rubber garden hose to beat him on the bottom of his feet. God I really have to get out more often and get away from the tv. Stay safe all.
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 03:46 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: What makes your opinion so worthwhile?
Education ? success in writing ? anything ? How about just posting your name?
Yeah - I thought so none of the above!
EF
I could ask the same of YOU.
I have revealed my identity privately to some posters on this board. We all know who you are even though you post under a variety of handles. You are living proof that a rose by any other name is still a rose. Or a weed, or whatever. You could post under the handle of Miss Manners and everyone would still know who you are.
What makes my opinion worthwhile is that I am a registered voter, a full-time resident of Pinal County who works and shops within the Apache Junction city limits, and I form my opinions through considering evidence and listening to the opinions of other people who have actually used their brain to form their opinion. You never present any evidence, you just quack. You present "facts" that are either false or twisted.
I registered Independent because (get this) I am disgusted with both of the major parties in our system and because I do not vote a party line. I spend time reading the candidates statements and seeing what their positions are and then I vote for the candidate that I think would best represent my interests.
Yes, there are career politicians and I have even voted for some. There are some people who genuinely love serving and God love 'em for it. They keep getting re-elected because they respond to their constituents and people remember that.
There are people on this board that I have disagreed with, but I still respect their opinions. You, on the other hand, constantly criticize without offering a single suggestion for improvement. Your actions seem to indicate that you are not interested in anything but the sound of your own voice.
What local organizations are you involved in? Have you ever even, like, helped a neighbor pick up their trash after the wind blew their can over or anything like that?
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johnnyk597 Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 10:12 am |
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| Her opinion is worthwhile EF because she is a registered voter in Pinal County, remember the ones that didn't vote for you as stated here. Be nice, maybe when you get to the new place you'll be going to you will be more appreciated with your new look and hopefully you will listen more ( instead of whacking off at the jibs first) and then you might get a vote or two more. Let me know how things turn out. Mr. Mayor of the new town you are going too.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:41 am |
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What makes your opinion so worthwhile?
Education ? success in writing ? anything ? How about just posting your name?
Yeah - I thought so none of the above!
EF
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 03:24 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: Mrs K
Why change a thing? The Independent party is new to Pinal . It will do just fine .
I did not have organized party support. Bryan also spent 10x the money.
Money he will be strongly influenced in his decisions and mostly developers !
I guess you are ok with that .
I registered Independent and I did not vote for you. You will never have organized support because you are a loose cannon.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 05:41 am |
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Mrs K
Why change a thing? The Independent party is new to Pinal . It will do just fine .
I did not have organized party support. Bryan also spent 10x the money.
Money he will be strongly influenced in his decisions and mostly developers !
I guess you are ok with that .
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 04:05 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: First question
How is Laura Dean Lytles integrity not an issue for Apache Junction? To say she has nothing to do with Apache Junction is absurd!
She holds all the cards concerning Initiative , Referendum ,and of course Recall which she cleverly mucked up in March.
Do you really believe she is not relevent to AJ?
It's not like the Apache Junction City Council can do anything about it either. So why do you insist on wasting everyone's time bringing issues before the council that are of no interest or outside of their jurisdiction.
The 3000 votes you got came from all over the district. Bryan Martyn got 7 times that many votes. That should tell you something. For as many times as you've run for an office and as much talking as you do, if that's all the votes you can get that should be a signal that you need to change your message.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:52 am |
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Joe
Look in the Pinal County website elections - Novenber 2 2008
Pinal County Supervisor District two
EF
Last edited on Fri Jun 26th, 2009 11:16 am by
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:49 am |
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Second
Why would I wait for an answer? Most of the answers are attacks on me rather then the subject matter.
Any answers should be in written form or electronic anyway.
EF
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:44 am |
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First question
How is Laura Dean Lytles integrity not an issue for Apache Junction? To say she has nothing to do with Apache Junction is absurd!
She holds all the cards concerning Initiative , Referendum ,and of course Recall which she cleverly mucked up in March.
Do you really believe she is not relevent to AJ?
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watchingYou Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 06:25 am |
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Fishy, you can still talk at call to the public, and you still do. I have noticed some changes with you. You now wear a t shirt and shorts..........normal arizona summer ware.
Our city council cannot change the Pinal County government.
The council has said every call to the public...........that it wants comments on issues dealing with items that they can handle.
Insisting on a change in employees on the county level does not fall under our CITY council.
It does not mean campaigning either. If you spoke on the city issues.......we would listen more to you. You actually had a good one the other day. The people who can lead you to the people you should be dealing with have often told you who to contact but all I can tell Fishy, is that you just blast the council. I am not sure if you ever go to those other people and talk to them.
The call to the public is for the public to talk to the council. You had a question, and then you walked out one nite fish, BEFORE you got your answer. You had just got into the lobby. I thought then it must not have been that important to you as you didn't wait.
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J&JFarms Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 06:18 am |
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flygad1 wrote: sounds like one of the stupid comments Doug Coleman would make to deflect from answering a question.
Didn't understand it, huh?
I think what I wrote hit a little close to home.
But just in case you missed it...
CTTP is not intended to be a grandstand for those with a political axe to grind.
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dzrtrat67 Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 03:16 am |
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dangit! I can't find this anywhere. Elliot.... what election for last November? Please show me the way.
Joe
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 02:39 am |
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Mrs K
I had over 3000 votes in a Election in November . It seems someone wants to hear it.
I will Remind you the City Council is getting paid our money to listen to what you call babble!
I don't get paid to fight for our rights- Just keep this in mind.
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 03:45 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: Mrs K
I really wonder what you think Apache Junction 's City Council is? These people are not nice!
Do you think a activist will ever be givin a microphone? If they don't want to allow 3 minutes what makes you think they will ever entertain your idea?
absurd!!
Activists are the reason that this has become a problem. Too many people get up and babble for three minutes about things that are of NO interest to the general population. Some have used their three minutes to insult the members of the council and call them crooks, or to campaign for office. CTTP has been abused, and people are tired of it.
What does any of this have to do with the council being "nice"? They are under no obligation to entertain jokers!
Go stand on a street corner and make your speech. I have a feeling the general population is not nearly as tolerant as the council has been.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 07:49 am |
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sounds like one of the stupid comments Doug Coleman would make to deflect from answering a question.
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J&JFarms Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 05:42 am |
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Elliot,
You are at nearly every meeting and each time you stand up for your 3 minutes you manage to string together several unrelated topics into a nonsensical rambling that undermines your credibility, your cause du jour and supports the limitation of the CTTP.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 04:01 am |
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Mrs K
I really wonder what you think Apache Junction 's City Council is? These people are not nice!
Do you think a activist will ever be givin a microphone? If they don't want to allow 3 minutes what makes you think they will ever entertain your idea?
absurd!!
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:51 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: c-mon Jeff
I don't believe that you never heard of the emergency clause!
It is only used for one thing and we know what that is to stop a Referendum!
I can only imagine why you guys don't want to broadcast call to the public.
It must not be good if you want to limit citizens from seeing it!
The citizens already know what goes on at CTTP. We've all been watching it and bored to tears by it. Nothing worth hearing is said there. If anyone is all that interested in it, they can go to the meeting and hear it live and in person.
If you have something worth sharing, you should ask to be placed on the agenda and give a presentation that way. Otherwise...no one cares what you have to say at CTTP.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:45 pm |
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c-mon Jeff
I don't believe that you never heard of the emergency clause!
It is only used for one thing and we know what that is to stop a Referendum!
I can only imagine why you guys don't want to broadcast call to the public.
It must not be good if you want to limit citizens from seeing it!
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:42 pm |
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flygad1 wrote: There are laws concerning open meetings if a meeting is broadcast I would submit it should be done inclusively .
I am sure there will be a legal challenge to this by myself if knowone else.
EF
Another waste of taxpayer money by the guy who whines the loudest about it!
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CouncilmemberSerdy Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:39 pm |
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| Equal time? No guarantee of that. Even us councilmembers are supposed to be recognized by the mayor before we can dominate a meeting. Yesterday was the first I'd heard of this emergency clause...I don't know where Terrance dug that up at. It's being moved to the end of the meeting because it's the sensable and humane thing to do. Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:40 pm by CouncilmemberSerdy
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:36 pm |
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There are laws concerning open meetings if a meeting is broadcast I would submit it should be done inclusively .
I am sure there will be a legal challenge to this by myself if knowone else.
EF
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MrsK2009 Member

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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:22 pm |
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How is this interfering with free speech?
You are not promised free media coverage. You can fill out the form and wait your turn to speak like everyone else. It's just that only those present will hear you. Those watching by TV or online don't have to be bothered.
Anyone who is interested in what you have to say at CTTP can go to the meeting.
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:55 pm |
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Mr Serdy
Can I take your comments as a affirmation of the expressed intentions of the Council to limit free speech and equal time?
What is your position on this inappropriate use of the emergency clause?
The weakness of the current mayor to impose Roberts Rules is no reason to trample free speech!
as Adlai Stevenson said " The first principal of a free society is a untrammeled flow of words in an open forum "
There will be political fallout over this !
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J&JFarms Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:57 am |
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CTTP is a double-edged sword.
For example, after the CTTP the council can respond.
If not televised those watching can't hear the assinine statements or the retorts.
That being said, a CTTP acts as a pressure relief valve. Imagine if the things said at CTTP were printed without the benefit of an immediate response? Damage control is a horrible PR tool.
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CouncilmemberSerdy Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 01:47 am |
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| I'd tune in to watch your show now and then Elliott. If it was a talk show format I'd even agree to be a guest.
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dzrtrat67 Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 09:13 pm |
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I'm just bummed I won't be able to watch all the shenanigans on TV now!

Joe
Elliot.... I think you should just start your own cable access or youtube show. Heck, I can help you with some of the production aspects.
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Christa_Rizzi Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 09:07 pm |
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dzrtrat67 wrote: C'mon Elliot,
It's not a declaration of war on free speech or anything else.
A core group of people violated the CTTP guidelines consistently over the course of many months, addressing and attacking individual council members and staff rather than addressing them as a body and discussing specific public issues as is clearly stated at the beginning of every CTTP.
The same holds true for the ones who got up and blathered their support for the council....this still violated the rules of CTTP, since they weren't discussing public issues, but instead were just continuing all the drama commonly found on these forums.... all of you who participated in these antics brought these changes on yourselves.
Why can't you understand that CTTP is not there to act as your (or anyone else's) personal soapbox.... it's there for members of the public to communicate their concerns about city issues in general to the entire body of the council. They don't even have to provide it at all as far as I know.
Although, I must admit, I did find it mildly entertaining, if not productive.
Joe
Very well said Joe
Christa Rizzi
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dzrtrat67 Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 09:01 pm |
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C'mon Elliot,
It's not a declaration of war on free speech or anything else.
A core group of people violated the CTTP guidelines consistently over the course of many months, addressing and attacking individual council members and staff rather than addressing them as a body and discussing specific public issues as is clearly stated at the beginning of every CTTP.
The same holds true for the ones who got up and blathered their support for the council....this still violated the rules of CTTP, since they weren't discussing public issues, but instead were just continuing all the drama commonly found on these forums.... all of you who participated in these antics brought these changes on yourselves.
Why can't you understand that CTTP is not there to act as your (or anyone else's) personal soapbox.... it's there for members of the public to communicate their concerns about city issues in general to the entire body of the council. They don't even have to provide it at all as far as I know.
Although, I must admit, I did find it mildly entertaining, if not productive.
Joe
Last edited on Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 09:05 pm by dzrtrat67
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flygad1 Guest
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 08:21 pm |
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There will be a legal challenge and if this fails a Inititive to expand it and (other)ethics rules.
I will reach out to all the the citizens.
This is nothing less than a declaration of war against free speech in Apache Junction and against equal protection under the law.
The Fly
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dzrtrat67 Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 08:02 pm |
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my 2 pennies:
Move CTTP to the end, but still keep it available for web viewing.
As far as it being a right..... doesn't the Mayor state before CTTP at every meeting that it's NOT required by law, that it's a privilege/service that the council provides because they DO want to give the public a conduit to address them all at once?
(I believe the article also mentions this)
Also... I thought they did this a couple months ago?? Was there an issue with the way they enacted it. I know I remember watching a meeting on Channel 11 and having it cut off right as CTTP was beginning....
Joe
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Christa_Rizzi Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 07:49 pm |
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I agree with moving CTTP to the end of the meeting. Although I some what understand council's reasoning behind turning the cameras off I strongly disagree.
Citizens who choose to watch our city meetings have the right to view the entire meeting. Some using CTTP have announcements of events and other information that can be useful to everyone in the community.
We may not always like what someone else has to say but everyone has the right to speak and everyone has the right to hear what is spoken..
Had CTTP not be used as a battering ram on elected officials (like them or not) and city staff this most likely would not have been changed.
Hopefully as peace and order our brought back to council meetings perhaps this will change in time..
Christa Rizzi
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AJ Editor Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 07:40 pm |
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Joe,
You are absolutely correct. We will be running a correction in next week's issue.
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dzrtrat67 Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 07:32 pm |
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ummmm....... I thought the recall election was last March, not last November...????
Joe
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AJ Editor Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 07:22 pm |
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AJ to invoke emergency
law over 'call to the public'
Referendum challenging the
action not possible, Stern says
By Terrance Thornton
Independent Newspapers
Apache Junction City Council is considering to move the "call to the public" portion of regular meetings to the rear and will stop televising or streaming it online by the first week of July, city officials said.
City Attorney Joel Stern says he is anticipating the measure to be voted on and approved at council’s July 7 regular meeting. The council discussed the matter at a June 15 work session.
"This is just a discussion on it," he said in a phone interview June 16 of the work session. "It is not going to be voted on, until it has a public hearing. It is an ordinance."
The amendment to Chapter 2 of city code — which is being done with an emergency clause — allows the current council to change meeting procedure, according to the work session agenda.
"They (council) feel it is an emergency preservation of the community to get it done," Mr. Stern explained. "Does it have to be? That is up to the council; it is no one else’s decision."
According to state statute, when a city or town passes into law a new ordinance, that new city code becomes enforceable 30 days after the date of the public governing body approving it.
But when an emergency is declared — which in this case applies, Mr. Stern contends — the new city code as soon as it is approved by a three-fourths majority vote becomes a rule instantly. Three fourths majority is six of the seven members of council.
According to state statute, an emergency can be defined as "necessary for the immediate preservation of the peace, health or safety of the city or town."
Ordinance 1342, which is anticipated to be voted on during a public hearing 7 p.m. Tuesday, July 7 at City Hall, 300 E. Superstition Blvd., states, among other things, that "many individuals since October 2007 who spoke at ‘call to the public’ verbally attacked the mayor, city council, city manager, city attorney and other staff members with defamatory statements ..."
The proposed ordinance also states that council finds the new changes to how and when "call to the public" is allowed to be viewed or participated in as within the "best interest of the community."
Since the overwhelming defeat of the Nov. 4 recall election, which targeted five members of city council, a member of city council has made a motion each meeting to move "call to the public" to the end of the meeting.
Any member of the general public can speak during "call to the public," but is limited to three minutes of speaking time. There is no limit to how many members of the public may speak, according to city code.
According to Mr. Stern — and he says confirmed through state law — "call to the public" portions of council meetings are not a right, but rather a privilege that Mr. Stern says city council has been "generous" with.
"Oh hell yeah, you don’t even need to have one," he said of "call to the public" being a privilege and not a right of the people. "‘Call to the public’ is not a guarantee in any city or town."
Although Mr. Stern says the time set aside for public comment is not a right, city council is eager to hear input on community matters, but only constructive viewpoints.
"That is the whole point of ‘call to the public,’" he said. "The council wants to hear from the general public on matters within the city."
Mr. Stern says the proposed ordinance would be an administrative change to city code, which precludes any chance for a referendum challenging the validity of the measure.
If within 30 days of a new city code becoming ratified, a certain percentage of the electorate that elected the sitting council could sign petitions forcing a public vote on the matter, state statute states.
But since this ordinance is only an administrative action and is on an emergency basis, that course of action would not be possible, Mr. Stern said.
"It is the effective date; if you had 30 days then you could go refer the matter," Mr. Stern said of what an emergency clause attached to a city ordinance does. "We are not doing this to get around this rule."
Dan Barr, who is a First Amendment lawyer on retainer for the Arizona Newspaper Association, says that when it pertains to open meeting law an emergency clause is typically used when a public meeting must be scheduled with less than 24 hours of public notice.
Mr. Barr also explained that acts of God — such as earthquakes, floods or severe weather — are typical reasons for a city or town to enact an emergency measure.
"Whatever they are using it for, if they are giving it any more than 24 hours notice then I don’t know," he said in a phone interview. "Maybe they are changing the city code. I would look at that."
Liz Hill, assistant ombudsman for public access, which is an agency of the Arizona State Legislature specializing in complaints of violations of state law, agrees.
"They are probably basing it on what they are declaring an emergency," she said of how state statute can be interpreted. "Maybe that is the problem, it is that they are not being straight forward for what that provision is for."
Ms. Hill says there could be issue with how the city of Apache Junction is using the emergency provision for state statute referring to referendum petitions against municipal actions.
"They are changing something internally," she said. "One concern would maybe be what are they doing with those emergency clauses?"
During the June 15 work session Councilman Richard Dietz clarified that "call to the public" will still be recorded and available for anyone of the public to view, just not televised or streamed online at http://www.ajcity.net.
Mr. Stern explained that all "call to the public" request forms — if the new ordinance were to become the rule — must be given to the city clerk prior to the city manager’s report. A request form includes the person’s name, address and contact information.
The city manager’s report usually follows consideration of the consent agenda, awards and proclamations and any announcement of public events, according to recent meeting agendas.
"So, if I see somebody coming up and I stop real quickly, they’re too late?" City Manager George Hoffman jokingly asked at the June 15 work session while council chambers filled with laughter.
"That I would say is point of order, and that answer would be ‘yes’" Mr. Stern replied during the work session.
Councilwoman Robin Barker said she agrees with the change to meeting procedure.
"I like it," she quipped. "And I will be real quick with the point of order."
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