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> Arizona Public Forums > Apache Junction Public Issues Forum > P&Z deliberates the definition of a front yard

P&Z deliberates the definition of a front yard
 
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J&JFarms
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 Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 06:05 am
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The intent is to create a pseudo HOA type environment within the newer neighborhoods while maintaining the status quo in the poorer ones. 

I'm not anti-poor or pro-rich, I'm pro-private property rights.  

Should a person be able to have a bunch of broken down cars in their front yard?

No, and there are existing ordinances about that. 

Should a person be able to park their legally registered RV on their property? 

YES! 

If I can't use 30% of my tiny little lot, I'm going to file for compensation and an adjustment of my taxes.  They are essentially taking away a person's property. 

Little Bitty
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 Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 03:59 am
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Hey, has anyone really thought about the space on property that is just as exposed as a front yard but is really a back yard or corner lot?  I mean look around, I think if the city impacts front yards for the purpose of what? - clean & tidy?  Well then what about those with acreage that extend from one street to another street.  There are such properties, and the ranch is completely visible.  So how does it render service to some and not others?  I really believe that a property with an exposed backyard is likely to be approached as is for the front yards ranches.   What about the corner lots?  The combination of these properties is more numerous than the city may realize.  Could it be the city's researchers where sloppy, is this an over site, was adequate research performed, or is this a well laid trap?  This stupid proposal is going to impact way more people that is being chatted about.  :X :X :X 

ajBookchin
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 Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 06:16 am
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.

J&JFarms
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 Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 07:18 am
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The city can set an ordinance about motorhomes, but if the unit is licensed, registered, and operable, it will be very difficult to cite anyone for parking it on an improved surface (be it gravel, concrete, or asphalt) in front of the site line or not.  As a registered transportation conveyance, if the vehicle is registered in accordance to all applicable laws, and because it is not a commercial vehicle, restrictions on parking are going to be very difficult to enforce.  Since the county and city recognize improved surfaces as driveways, thrown down some gravel and you've got a parking place.   

35_Yr_Resident
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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2009 05:12 pm
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MrsK2009 wrote: I'll take the bait.

It's good to define front yard.  There was a time when you could say "front yard" and everyone knew what you meant, but I guess we live in a complicated time, where even old familiar terms must now be legally defined.  I used to think of "front yard" as that part of the yard that faces the street that my address is on.  Now, I'm not sure. 

The laws also need to be re-examined.  You can park a tractor trailer rig in your front yard, but if Aunt Sal comes to visit in her motor home, you can't park that there?  Is there some kind of logic there? 


I agree with your definition of front yard. What I would like to know is how aunt sal is going to park a motorhome where their isnt any driveway. It isnt like motorhomes are 4 wheel drives. Not everyone has backyard driveway access, especialy on small lots.

MrsK2009
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 Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 05:23 pm
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flygad1 wrote: Just make sure you can pass the one tooth test!

Just what is THAT supposed to mean?

I wish you would move to outer Mongolia or somewhere like that...

J&JFarms
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19th, 2009 08:25 am
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Current laws regarding screening of debris and no-op vehicles is sufficient and the proposed front-yard rules will further impact the use of private property. 

In parts of AJ the front yard of a parcel may be directly across from the side or back yard of another parcel.  In this scenario overly regulatory front-yard ordinances will do little to impact the area. 

flygad1
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19th, 2009 03:38 am
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Just make sure you can pass the one tooth test!

OMG!
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 Posted: Sat Jul 18th, 2009 07:09 pm
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Christa_Rizzi wrote: As a current issue before P and Z I'd like to hear from more citizens here as well as at the meetings..

Anyone else have opinions on the front yard definition?

Christa Rizzi

This can get complicated Christa, but I think it would help to define a front yard by property volume and size. A front yard on a 2 acre plot for instance is going to have a different set of boundaries than a house in the Palm Springs neighborhood! Everyone in Palm Springs is bordered by city streets where larger plots of land out and away from the centre of town are not. I don't see how we can reach a conclusion about yards and fences unless lot size is a part of the equation. Houses do not all face the same way nor are they situated the same way on large lots like they are in neighborhoods closer to town. I can see why many would be concerned about what local government could do to private property owners with concerns about their property rights, but I would remind everyone that there were open piles of junk, rotting cars, furniture and debri spread out for all of us to see that created this entire issue in the first place! It is one thing to have it exposed to the public and another to have it behind fences at least. No one was fond of the nickname "Apache Junkyard!"

Last edited on Sat Jul 18th, 2009 07:32 pm by OMG!

JStenglein
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 Posted: Fri Jul 17th, 2009 11:50 pm
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MrsK2009 wrote: Yes, Christa - case in point:  if "front yard" means everything along the street, then P&Z could be creating a lot of problems for people with acreage if there are too many rules restricting what you can do with your front yard.

Even though I don't live inside the city limits, I see this trend toward micro-management of citizens' private property and I think a city government is overstepping its bounds when it creates problems for property owners. 

Make rules against health and safety hazards, but when you start telling people that they can't keep their horses or have a six-foot fence on any part of their acreage that faces the street, you're just asking for problems with angry people. 

Apache Junction is not Scottsdale and it is not Dogpatch, but people who came here and now want to make it just like where they came from need to go back to where they came from IMHO.

 
Very well stated. Governments would do well to remember that they exist to secure the rights of the people and not to rule over people.

"Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice without constraint.” - Alexander Hamilton in Federalist #15


It also needs to be remembered that, especially on larger lots, not everyone's home faces the street. So the traditional, suburban image of a front yard does not always jive with the reality.

MrsK2009
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 Posted: Thu Jul 16th, 2009 04:20 pm
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Yes, Christa - case in point:  if "front yard" means everything along the street, then P&Z could be creating a lot of problems for people with acreage if there are too many rules restricting what you can do with your front yard.

Even though I don't live inside the city limits, I see this trend toward micro-management of citizens' private property and I think a city government is overstepping its bounds when it creates problems for property owners. 

Make rules against health and safety hazards, but when you start telling people that they can't keep their horses or have a six-foot fence on any part of their acreage that faces the street, you're just asking for problems with angry people. 

Apache Junction is not Scottsdale and it is not Dogpatch, but people who came here and now want to make it just like where they came from need to go back to where they came from IMHO.

 

J&JFarms
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 Posted: Thu Jul 16th, 2009 07:28 am
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This is a nasty can of worms that has been opened. 

If the front yard def is set to restrict the use on large parcels they would have a reasonable right to petition of a property tax reduction, or worse. 

IMO a "front yard" boundry is set by the front of the dwelling.  The property from the garage to the property line wouldn't be considered front yard.  Where as the land from the other property line, infront of the house and/or front door, facing the street from which the address is derived, to the edge of the garage would be the front yard.

On a large parcel, set the space on each side of the face of the building that faces the street from which the address is derived based on the width of the parcel.  For example, on a 5 acre parcel with 660' of exposure, say 40' on either side of the house as the total width, extended to the street.  Beyond that I would set the set-backs to be the same as side yards, so long as there are no visual obstructions for motorists. 

I urge P&Z to use extreme caution as once again we are looking at increased regulation of the use of privately held properties. 

Last edited on Thu Jul 16th, 2009 07:29 am by J&JFarms

Christa_Rizzi
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 Posted: Thu Jul 16th, 2009 02:49 am
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As a current issue before P and Z I'd like to hear from more citizens here as well as at the meetings..

Anyone else have opinions on the front yard definition?

Christa Rizzi

MrsK2009
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 Posted: Wed Jul 8th, 2009 02:29 am
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flygad1 wrote: I hear they want to Incorporate your area!

EF:shock:


Fat chance.  But I would have a dilemma.  If you call that area outside the "front door" the "front yard" then my address is screwy because there is no street on the "front door" side of my house.  My side yard - which is the front yard by definition of the street address - is where my address is.  My back yard, though, abuts with another street.  So my address could just as easily be on that street - but then my back yard would be my front yard.

See - I don't even know where I live anymore.

:?

J&JFarms
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 Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 07:42 am
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The problem with "front yard" definitions is that is being used as another way to restrict the land useage of large parcels. 

I suggest an improved surface across the entire length and make it a big driveway. 

flygad1
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 Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 03:36 pm
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I hear they want to Incorporate your area!

EF:shock:

MrsK2009
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:40 am
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I'll take the bait.

It's good to define front yard.  There was a time when you could say "front yard" and everyone knew what you meant, but I guess we live in a complicated time, where even old familiar terms must now be legally defined.  I used to think of "front yard" as that part of the yard that faces the street that my address is on.  Now, I'm not sure. 

The laws also need to be re-examined.  You can park a tractor trailer rig in your front yard, but if Aunt Sal comes to visit in her motor home, you can't park that there?  Is there some kind of logic there? 

You can't have a fence any higher than 4 1/2 feet in your front yard under the current code.  If your dog is a basset hound that works; if your dog is an Irish Wolfhound...well, he could just WALK over the fence if he wanted to.  And while I don't think many people keep horses in their front yard - well, with the new definition of front yard I wonder how many people who once thought their horses were in the back yard will find that, no - their horses are in the front yard.

Praise the Lord, I live in the county...




AJ Editor
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 05:17 pm
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P&Z deliberates the 
definition of a front yard


Height of fences and parking
restrictions are top concerns


By Terrance Thornton
Independent Newspapers


City leaders continue to struggle to define what a front yard is — what can be built on one and what can be parked on it — in order to give residents clear guidance on what the laws are so they can avoid citations for violating city ordinances.


The Apache Junction Planning and Zoning Commission discussed the issue at its June 24 work session. According to P&Z Commission Vice Chairman Charles Bunten, the city needs to better define the rules surrounding such "hot-button" issues as the height of fences and whether or not one can park an RV in their front yard.


"Most cities deal with front yards in a similar manner," said Rudy Esquivias, Apache Junction senior planner while prefacing his June 24 presentation to the commission. Ms. Esquivias presented a preliminary proposal designed to clarify the laws surrounding front yards in Apache Junction.


Mr. Esquivias explained the definition of front yards normally revolves around four main points: the buildable area, net area, front yard setback and front yard lot line.


"These proposed changes will affect numerous parts of our zoning code," Mr. Esquivias explained to the commission.


Fred Baker, Apache Junction planning manager, explained the proposals are very preliminary in scope, but are meant to create a clear-cut definition of what a front yard is and how the city will define them.


Mr. Esquivias said the issue of front-yard fence height and materials allowed to be used are the first items to be addressed when it comes to developing amendments to already existing zoning codes as they pertain to front yards.


"So far, the first thing we are attempting to look at is what is approved fence material," he told the commission. "This, hopefully, will cut back on the hodge-podge fences we see."


According to city code, a front yard fence can only be as high as 4 1/2 feet tall. Because of typical fences already in place around town, P&Z commissioners and city staff agree a change may be in order.


"We have fences that exceed something that would require a building permit," Vice Chair Bunten said. He agreed a six-foot front-yard fence is illegal, but wondered why the city wants to address the issue when the code is rarely enforced.


"Unless somebody complains about (fence height), we are probably not going to know about it," Mr. Esquivias said. "A front yard is one issue, and fences are another issue."


While a six-foot front-yard fence is indeed illegal, Mr. Bunten referred to the word "illegal" as a "sick bird."


"The argument we have heard recently ... is that the 4 1/2 feet does not suffice," when it involves residential properties where horse-boarding operations occur. "There are a lot of properties that could be affected by this (new proposal)."


Mr. Bunten wants the commission to further question the validity of the fence-height ordinance. "I am just trying to find out what is best for the entire community."


Chip Wilson, Apache Junction Councilman, agrees the definition of front yards ought to be clearly defined and acceptable to all members of the community — especially residents in the rural area of the community.


Since a number of residents have received citations, he thinks it’s important to draft a good, clear definition on what is and what isn’t allowed in a front yard. "This is causing some major problems and this is one of the things we need to look at," he explained in a phone interview.


Councilman Wilson says one of the first things to address: What defines the front yard? Is it the side of the house that fronts the street? The side that contains the address?


"I know that when we were discussing it there were a couple of things that needed to be cleared up and defined, things everyone can live with," he said of initial conversations had at the council level. "It is not the true front door of your house."


Mr. Wilson says parking vehicles in rural front yards is an issue that also needs to be clarified.


P&Z Commissioner Theresa Nesser questioned why, according to city code, you can park a semi-truck in a front yard — yet an out-of-town visitor can’t park an RV in the same place.


According to city code, a recreational vehicle not used for any purpose can be parked in the rear yard or stored in a completely enclosed garage.


"So, someone who comes into town and can’t park their RV in the driveway overnight?" she asked Mr. Esquivias. "I know someone whose mother has lived in it for 10 years."


Mr. Esquivias replied, "they can park it in the backyard, but not the driveway."


When P&Z Commissioner Sue Johns confirmed that semi-trucks are allowed in front yards while RVs are not, the only thing she could say was "oh Lord."


Registered members are encouraged to comment on this topic by clicking “reply” in the upper right corner of this entry. Comments posted online may be used in an upcoming edition of the Apache Junction/Gold Canyon Independent. For more news, visit http://circulation.newszap.com to purchase an e-Subscription. As an e-Subscriber, you will be able to view the actual newspaper pages online, including every story, feature, advertisement and photo


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