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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 10:24 pm |
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| ninuchy, if you have concrete information that you can back up, I'll make sure all of my neighbors are aware of it.
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Ignorance Is Bliss
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 09:59 pm |
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Ninunchy - You are incorrect assuming I work for the association. I do not. I would also be careful what you say about whomever this "LS" is, as he/she may not have the desire to be spoken about as you have decided to do.
However, S. Stevens is correct. This is the forum you have available to speak your piece about how bad/corrupt the Board is - so have at it. Just be factual and give us details we can check out.
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S Stevens
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 09:38 pm |
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| You have a forum on this site so go for it.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 09:04 pm |
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| Since you see fit to try to tell everyone who I am should we make it obvious who you are LS. Don't you work for the association? Didn't you deny who you are in front of witnesses and on tape. It is ok for you to try to discredit me, I really don't care because you are really a no body wanting to be a somebody. I know who I am and am proud of who I am. You are right, I do have nothing but disdain for this board because they have done things that they need to be held accountable for. Its too bad that you are a part of that network. I don't think you as an employee of this association should be out there trying to discredit someone who you work for. ME. I am your employer. Your wages come from my assessments. So watch your step LS . Someone may find out who you really are. This board has been harmful to this community in several ways and if I had the forum I would point out each and everyone of them. I choose not to run for the board, I have served on a board in Ohio and served 2 terms and one of them as their President. I also served on a School Board in Ohio, and I served as a Board of Director of an association here in Arizona. I know how the game is played. If you wish to get down and dirty, two can play at that game. Remember I have you on tape denying who you are. You get your orders or your permission to say things on this blog from someone and you and I both know who that is. So lets not play games anymore OK LS. I don't have to serve on this board to get things done, I would much rather benefit this community by letting people know about the back door politics that is going on in this community.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 08:48 pm |
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I think building a drama theater could be a great idea and a wonderful money maker for SCG.
If they did 26 shows a year, charging $10 a ticket, with 300 seats that would be $78,000. Subtract from that utilities ($1,000 a month), insurance ($1,500 a month, big guess on this one) and makeup and costumes (give them a budget of say $15,000), SCG could make $46,000 a year (if they charged $20 a ticket, we could make $92,000 a year). Since the building will be built from fund raising and all the workers would be volunteers, I say build it - we can use the money.
Could we use the money on a building for the dog park - tile floor, air conditioning, running water and seating, please. It is too hot to go there now, but a nice building would be a wonderful thing for our dogs....please consider it!
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Ignorance Is Bliss
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 08:40 pm |
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Ninuchy - You certainly have been busy this past week since joining the bloggers. Anyone reading your posts knows you certainly have a great deal of disdain for the members of the SCG Board and you have no problem naming those who you dislike. I would guess hundreds of readers have already figured out who you are.
I would appreciate you giving a few more details on your accusations so we can all better understand why these folks are so bad for the association. If they are as bad as you want others to believe, maybe we can recall them and replace them with folks like you. I'm sure you would like to be on the Board since you could do a much better job.
Why didn't you run this past election? Or, do you remember how the members voted when you ran back in 2001?
Keep educating us LL.
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azsu
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 08:22 pm |
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| it may or may not have been made in a discriminatory manner but no matter how you spin it, it is discrimination
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Nancy
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 08:17 pm |
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azsu, I really don't think it was made in a discriminatory manner - but I can't really think of why someone would want "especially couples" to represent our community with the amount of well spoken, well dressed, intelligent singles that could do it as well.
ninuncy, every organization is different with regard to the terms a person can serve - where I work they can be on the board for 2 terms and then they have to be off for at least a year and then can run again. As far as Volunteers for a committee is concerned, it is up to the chair of that committee on who and how long they can be on the committee.
Last edited on Sat Jul 28th, 2007 08:23 pm by Nancy
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ninuchy
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 05:43 pm |
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This is just a typical way that the board does things. Open mouth insert foot. If this is brought to their attention I am sure that they will say they did not mean to offend a single person or to not make them think that they should volunteer. I don't listen to Channel 22 because they seem to loose tapes of meetings and the most convenient time for the board. For example Ignorance is Bliss stated that Linda Lieber likes to throw gernades and see what kind of damage she can do. Well the tape of the meeting conveniently disappear because they said the sound quality was not good. Another example of them trying to crucify a member of this association. If you want to volunteer you should and if you do not get a volunteer position you should let everyone know what your feels are at the next Cam Jam on August 10, at 8.30. I would stand behind you. I have been a volunteer in the past and when things started to get a little messy on the committee I served on they decided to shorten how long you can serve. Does that make any sense, you are a volunteer and they tell you they don't want you anymore. They can't get volunteers now and they decide that you can't serve more that a 2 full terms. But Harvey Notebook can serve for this is 3rd full term and is still the Board President. What is fair for the goose should be fair to the gander. But alas this board is not fair. Remember you may association dues just like everyone else which entitles you to the same ability to volunteer.
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azsu
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 05:40 pm |
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| certainly sounds discriminatory to me
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Nancy
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 05:18 pm |
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A new subject. I was watching channel 22 this morning (I usually don't any longer but was getting ready for an aqua aerobics class at Surprise Aquatic park and had a few minutes to kill) and they were talking about the new Palm Center. They said that there would be a welcoming center there and they were looking for volunteers. I thought that was great until I thought I heard someone on the board say "they were looking for volunteers, especially couples". Why are they looking for "especially couples"? What is wrong with a single person welcoming people. First I could not believe that in this day and age anyone would make a comment like that, but then I started wondering what is wrong with singles in the community. I'm a single person and quite a few of my neighbors are; they are all educated, well spoken ladies and gentlemen and we would all benefit the community just as a couple would.
I've made no secret to the fact that I would like to volunteer, but work so it is very difficult, since everything is during the day and got excited that I might be able to give back to the community (since I would have been willing to volunteer on the weekends) and then the "especially couples" anvil was dropped on my head (you know, just like in the cartoons). Just wondering if anyone had an thoughts?
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ninuchy
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 04:36 pm |
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| At least we agree on something. (Joan Shafer). Cliff Elkins will not nor can he change anything in this city. He is a hood ornament. This is a City Manager type government. The City Manager is who runs the show. Anyone can be a hood ornament. The only thing he may be able to do is change how the city council looks to the public.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 04:27 pm |
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You are such a sad person. I cannot believe that just because a few people spoke up at meeting that you think there side was presented. Did the other side have anyone at the podium telling the people all the cons like the board did? NO NO NO. Yes the board was 100% for this issue but who cares, they don't speak for everyone. Again I will state to you that if both sides of the issue were presented then the outcome MAY MAY have been different. That is what I am saying. It is not a fair vote if all sides are not presented. I live here and I am intitled to my opinion and all of you who don't agree always come up with the catch phrase "MOVE". Well why don't you move. This community since conception was meant to be a ACTIVE ADULT RETIREMENT COMMUNITY. That was how it was marketed. Just like SUN CITY< SUN CITY WEST. The Anthem was marketed toward families. The Fiesta is marketed toward younger people, why don't you move there. I bought into this community knowing it was a retirement community and that it was I would like it to remain. All this crap about ageing in place is exactly that CRAP. If the other side could have been presented then the vote may have not been the same and that is why the board would not allow it to be presented, they were afraid that the truth would have changed the outcome. NOW THAT IS A VERY TRUTHFUL STATEMENT. That is how they have worked in the past and they continue to work that way today. All issues are settled behind closed doors before you even hear about them and then they present it to you and tell you they are going to form a committee. What a joke. The deal is already etched in stone. They prove that over and over again by saying at one meeting that a committee will be formed or that they have not even discussed the issue but in reality the truth comes out later that the money is already spent.
Here is a prime example. The Drama Club wants to build onto the Old Sales Office. This would change the view of the people who live behind it. It would only seat about 300 people. The cost over 3 million. The drama club says that they don't want this cost passed onto the community, they will depend on contributions, and fund raisers. First the cost is unrealistic. Second the cost of the building WILL be passed on to the residents with insurance, maintenance, utilities, taxes. If they open it to the public then we are no longer non profit. The Board at one meeting said this was not even in the forseeable future (John Such) well lo behold it is now an issue. Where was the committee. When was it formed. Who is on it. How many board members are members of the Drama Club. Will the other side get to honestly present the cons against this theater. If you don't agree with the board you will not get to present anything except to stand up in a meeting and suffer the wrath of the board thru their sarcasm and ridicule.
I am so sorry for you people who are so trusting of these people. They may do a good job in some areas but the areas of freedom of speech against them are sorely lacking. I hope you don't get hurt by their actions. You are already but we haven't seen the results yet. You will see it in you property values. Maybe not today, but in the future. Your mindset is that so what I won't be here let someone else worry about it. That is what is wrong with this country today. Nobody cares about their fellow man, they only care about themselves. That is the saddest thing that is happening in our nation today. You my friend contribute to this.
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dwig222
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 03:09 am |
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ninuchy wrote: Yes the vote was corrupt. Anytime that both sides of the issue is not presented then the vote is one sided and not a true vote. No one can form a informed vote on just one side of the issue. Both sides need to be presented. This board did not allow for the other side to present anything. The board just ridiculed the people who voiced an opinion that was against theirs. That is not how a true democratic vote is done. Not in this nation anyway. Maybe in a third world country. I am sorry that you don't see that. You seem to be an intelligent person. If you think that this vote was a good one then it is so sad.
No the vote was not corrupt and that was proven. That is your opinion and not an accurate one. There were dozens of meetings each week to let you present the other side and you did it so much that it made most of us crazy. So don't slander our board. And don't lie and say that your side was not presented. The board was 100% for this issue and you all had numerous opportunities to present your side and you did.
You all stated that we would have small children, loud music, a wild party every weekend, drag racers, drugs, alcohol, - need I go on? You presented your side about a hundred different ways and 68 % of the residents didn't agree with you. Don't be a sore loser.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 01:08 am |
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| Yes the vote was corrupt. Anytime that both sides of the issue is not presented then the vote is one sided and not a true vote. No one can form a informed vote on just one side of the issue. Both sides need to be presented. This board did not allow for the other side to present anything. The board just ridiculed the people who voiced an opinion that was against theirs. That is not how a true democratic vote is done. Not in this nation anyway. Maybe in a third world country. I am sorry that you don't see that. You seem to be an intelligent person. If you think that this vote was a good one then it is so sad.
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Nancy
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 07:56 pm |
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| You know, no matter where you live, not everyone is going to agree with either an HOA board or city government and that is okay. As long as people question, the board or council knows that people are paying attention and that is a good thing. If people don't question (or complain) than the board or city government can do whatever they darn well want without thinking about all.
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dwig222
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 07:33 pm |
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ninuchy wrote: Fine so you disagree. It was a corrupt vote. And yes in your eyes I was probably one of the people who stood up and tried to tell the people the truth about this issue so if that makes me a fool then so be it. Some of you people can only see one side and if you are so naive as to believe that this board does not have its own agenda then you are the fools. Some of us believe that both side of this issue should have been presented. Some of us believe that we should have heard from the people from other communites that the board was telling us that they liked this issue. Why is everyone so quick to believe everything that comes out of the Boards mouth. Do you vote like this in other elections. Do you not listen to both sides of issues when you try to make an intelligent decision. Well I do. I lived in a community that let their board run wild and that community is now a disaster. So if you wish to continue down a path of distruction so be it, no one is going to stop you but I for one will never stop trying to present both sides of an issue, that is the only fair way for people to make an informed decision.
It was not a corrupt vote. Our leaders were accused of that and they were audited. The audit showed it was completely fair and according to the law.
If you think our board that was elected by our residents is so corrupt, then why do you continue to live here. That just doesn't make any sense to me. You say "some of us believe" this and that.......... Some of you need to move.
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dwig222
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 07:23 pm |
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ninuchy wrote: Again I will say if you have never met this guy why are you defending him so vigorously. I have been to several council meetings and I know how he works. You have got to be politically savy to know about the good ole boy network and how it works. He is a master of this process. If you think otherwise then you are truly naive. I can only state what my opinions are and I don't voice my opinions without first hand knowledge. I see, I watch and I listen. Still if you think he is the best person for the job then so be it. But, here is another point. Do you think that the current Mayor Shafer is a good mayor or has she been a hinderence to this city. I personnally know for a fact that she is not an honest person. She has told me many things to my face when I have questioned her and done the complete oposite . She tells you what you want to hear just to get your vote for election. Now she is endorsing Cliff Elkins, in my book that doesn't bode well. She is the last person I would want to endorse me and if he thinks that is a blessing then he is the worst person for the job. He thinks to much like her for my vote. As far as I am concernced none of the people running are deserving of my vote but I will vote based on what I know, I see, I hear and I somewhat trust.
First of all, if you read one of my other posts, I said the only thing I didn't like about Elkins is his good ole boy personality.
Second, we totally agree on Joan Shafer. But, just because she is endorsing Cliff doesn't mean he is like her. Why not look at it from this angle.......if we elect someone to turn our city around and make it look good for a change, she can say she was a part of that. If we elect someone like Martha the city is going to continue to go downhill and everyone will say Joan started it. Perhaps our sneaky little mayor is backing the guy who can do that. She's worked with all of them, so she knows them well.
Third, I did say my vote was based on what I know, saw and heard for the last six years.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 03:45 pm |
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| Fine so you disagree. It was a corrupt vote. And yes in your eyes I was probably one of the people who stood up and tried to tell the people the truth about this issue so if that makes me a fool then so be it. Some of you people can only see one side and if you are so naive as to believe that this board does not have its own agenda then you are the fools. Some of us believe that both side of this issue should have been presented. Some of us believe that we should have heard from the people from other communites that the board was telling us that they liked this issue. Why is everyone so quick to believe everything that comes out of the Boards mouth. Do you vote like this in other elections. Do you not listen to both sides of issues when you try to make an intelligent decision. Well I do. I lived in a community that let their board run wild and that community is now a disaster. So if you wish to continue down a path of distruction so be it, no one is going to stop you but I for one will never stop trying to present both sides of an issue, that is the only fair way for people to make an informed decision.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 03:38 pm |
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| Again I will say if you have never met this guy why are you defending him so vigorously. I have been to several council meetings and I know how he works. You have got to be politically savy to know about the good ole boy network and how it works. He is a master of this process. If you think otherwise then you are truly naive. I can only state what my opinions are and I don't voice my opinions without first hand knowledge. I see, I watch and I listen. Still if you think he is the best person for the job then so be it. But, here is another point. Do you think that the current Mayor Shafer is a good mayor or has she been a hinderence to this city. I personnally know for a fact that she is not an honest person. She has told me many things to my face when I have questioned her and done the complete oposite . She tells you what you want to hear just to get your vote for election. Now she is endorsing Cliff Elkins, in my book that doesn't bode well. She is the last person I would want to endorse me and if he thinks that is a blessing then he is the worst person for the job. He thinks to much like her for my vote. As far as I am concernced none of the people running are deserving of my vote but I will vote based on what I know, I see, I hear and I somewhat trust.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 03:30 pm |
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| It was in the July 18,2007 Surprise Today Paper. I will quote:" The promotional DVD is ALREADY in development and a two minute preview was played at the workshop." " the informational pamhlet would cast the association $1,400.00. "Board President Harvey Noteboom said the promotions are needed. The board is suppose to act on this item on July 26 at 1.P.M. You cannot get a DVD made and not pay for it. It is just the beginning. They have gone ahead with this issue even at the protests of many people saying that this should be left up to the real estate agents to market. Again a sample of the board doing exactly what they want against the wishes of the homeowners. Harvey Noteboom was also present at a Stand for Grand meeting and has usual he beat around the answer. No one knew what he said after he said it. That is the way he operates. The board has this method of operation. Critizize, humiliate, talk down on anyone who disagrees with them to intimadate people from disagreeing or voicing their opinions. Believe only half of what you hear from the board and read between the other lines because 99.% of what they say is probably false.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 12:50 am |
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| ninuchy, how do you know that they have already spent dollars on marketing (and what have they spent it on). In the one meeting I was at, they said they would talk about it and get resident input prior to spending any dollars.
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dwig222
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 12:19 am |
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ninuchy wrote:
Everything as of late is what they want. Chances are they probably have a child that is in the 45 years old range and want them to move in here or they own several houses that they want to sell. I hope that all who voted for the age thing doesn't have a problem in the future because of this issue, but if you do. it is what it is, you brought it on to yourself.
I couldn't disagree with you more. You say it is what they want. So what about the vote? Did someone put the pen in the hands of 68 percent of the people here and force them to vote for it. I know what you will say - it was deceptive, it was fixed, it was this, that and everything. It was the best thing that will ever happen to SCG and those that were against it were in the minority. Were you one of those people who made such fools of themselves at the meetings. I have lived in AZ for a very long time. We have been in houses with homeowners associations for many years. We make it a point to find a development with a strong homeowners association. Our association here is the best we have ever seen. If you don't like it why don't you move? I could never live in a place where I felt a board was taking my money and doing just the opposite of what I wanted.
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dwig222
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Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2007 12:09 am |
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ninuchy wrote: I did not think I put any one down. I made a truthful statement. It sounds has if you know who you are voting for. Is he a neighbor of yours or a friend. Must be to defend him so vigorously.
I've never met the man in my life. I don't think he lives near me either. I just have watched the city council meetings for six years and he is the only one who impressed me.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 11:47 pm |
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I did not think I put any one down. I made a truthful statement. It sounds has if you know who you are voting for. Is he a neighbor of yours or a friend. Must be to defend him so vigorously.
I don't really have anything to say that is good about any City Council member. I will say that Martha Bails is the only member of City Coucil that has a code of ethics. She may not be as responsive to you as you would want her to be but you are not the only person that she has to deal with.
We let the only good thing that has happened to the City of Surprise get away.. The city managed to chase away Ken Senft. He would have been the best thing to this city since ice cream. It seems we always shoot off are nose to despite our face. We the public have to do better if things are going to change.
We the public have to stop being so defensive when someone disagrees with you. Every one is intitled to their opinion even if you don't agree. I feel that the City Council is corrupt and I don't believe Clift Elkins is going to change anything. He is part of the good ole boy network (you scratch by back and I will scratch yours). Believe it or not. If he is a friend of yours good for you but don't believe for one minute and he is our savior.
Everyone here gets in an uproar when somebody says something bad against our Board of Directors, but they are lacking in compassion, consideration and they don't know how to tell the truth and that are the facts rather you like it or not. They all tell you what they think you want to hear and then do what they want to do. There have been plenty of good ideas presented to the Board by members of this association and they have all fallen on deft ears. They all protected the Community Standards Director and even gave him a new job after they found out he was not doing his job and contiuned to work with him at every homeowners expense. We were paying him not the Board. The Board should be working for you not themselves. Everything as of late is what they want. Chances are they probably have a child that is in the 45 years old range and want them to move in here or they own several houses that they want to sell. I hope that all who voted for the age thing doesn't have a problem in the future because of this issue, but if you do. it is what it is, you brought it on to yourself.
There is not anyone running for City Council or the Mayor that is truly worth your vote but someone has to get elected. Lets just hope it is the right person for the City. One must not forget, this is a City Manager Government we have so the mayor is really just a hood ornament.
Don't be so negative and defensive when someone disagrees with you or picks on your friend. What we know and feel is the truth to us even if you feel it is not.
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 11:00 pm |
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ninuchy wrote: Cliff Elkins ran for our Board but did not make it. He is also a man that has said that anyone who writes to the vent column in the paper is stupid because no one reads it, but he can sure use it when he wants his words to get out. Anyone who votes for him should really think twice. He is a man of many words.
Instead of putting him down, I would like to hear what Martha Bails has done that would qualify her for mayor - or any of the other candidates for that matter. Cliff has worked very hard on the transportation issue. He is well liked by the people who vote. And, most important he is the most trustworthy. As far as the vent column goes, he may not be the one writing. I posted a short paragraph on one of the threads in this forum six months ago. I was stating why I liked Cliff. The following Wednesday, it was printed in the vent column. I believe that the Surprise Independent is favoring him.
Martha is a player. Didn't someone post on this forum about her being kicked off a city council in California. Martha has been planning this run for mayor for many years. When mayor Joan was elected the last time, she promised it would be her last run for mayor (she later went back on that promise). Martha set her eyes on that job years ago. That's why she votes the way she does. She doesn't care about the issues, she cares about getting the SCG votes for mayor. We have never heard from her once in the last five years. The first time I got any correspondence from her was after she announced she was running for mayor.
What have any of these people done for this city?
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ninuchy
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 10:13 pm |
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| Cliff Elkins ran for our Board but did not make it. He is also a man that has said that anyone who writes to the vent column in the paper is stupid because no one reads it, but he can sure use it when he wants his words to get out. Anyone who votes for him should really think twice. He is a man of many words.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 10:10 pm |
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The Bd. has already spent money on marketing and they have said since day one that they haven't even discussed it, that a group was going to formed to reserch the idea. It is already a done deal. Everything that your Bd tells you is for their own agenda. Unfortunely we residents of Sun City Grand keep electing these people back into office.
They do not care about your Atrium windows. It does not effect them. Your proplem is not theirs. They could care less about any issue that you as a homeowner has along as it doen't hinder them is spending your money from assessments as they see fit. They are probably getting some perks from the developer to ignore your concerns.
I have a question for anyone out there. Where has Ignorance is Bliss been lately. Haven't heard a peep from Him or Her in a while. Bliss seemed to be so full of info on the Bd. and what was going on in Grand.
Until all of us in Sun City Grand decide to take action against the current board nothing in this development will change. The Board of directors have their own private agenda that they are going to stick to no matter who gets stepped on. The unfortunate truth is that people have their lives to live and they don't want to be bothered with trying to change the system. They would much rather be having fun in the lives. Who wouldn't? But we all have a very sizable investment here and we should all be willing to try to protect that investment before we all lose due to plummeting house values. But everyone believes that it won't happen here. Boy, are they living in a fantasy world. It could and is happening here. I care very deeply about every concern that Grand residents have. I think our Board should be looking into every shoddy contractor that has done work in here and have a class action suit brought against each and every one of them that did inferior work.
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ninuchy
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 09:57 pm |
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| A Trane unit will cost approx. $1800.00 to $2200.00 installed depending on size. I just had both of my York units replaced.
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Craig
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 01:39 am |
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| Wonder if they are going to stay in hotels in tempe and chandler as well?
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goldrush
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 11:50 pm |
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A nationa pickleball tournament is scheduled to be held at the Surpise courts November '08
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goldrush
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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2007 11:47 pm |
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"Grand Pickleball To Pursue Pavilion"
Attempting to meet the recreational "needs" of every special interest group is a questionable use of available financial resources. Residents need to make use of the soon to be constructed Surprise pickleball courts rather than creating duplicative facilities at the expense of residents. The Surprise courts are paid for by taxpayers amounting to paying for courts twice. The cost to maintain existing facilities and the community as a whole represents and ever-increasing cost. Let's not plunder the CARE fund. What do the pickleballers (-bawlers) have to say on why they think they are deserving of special consideration for their entertainment "needs".
Last edited on Sat Jul 14th, 2007 11:33 pm by goldrush
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S Stevens
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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2007 12:59 am |
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| I agree, if they are going to build on open spaces, the community deserves the right to vote on it if they should do it or not. I enjoy the open space, that is one of the reason I purchased a home here, I did not want house after house after house without open spaces.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 01:59 am |
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I wonder what people are thinking. With pre-owned real estate down the way it is, the CARE fund is making much less money for the fund then they did in previous years. After saying this, I just read the following article in the Wester. Article (paraphasing of it) in black and my comments in blue.
Grand Pickleball to pursue pavilion
The Sun City Grand Pickleball Club is moving forward with plans to change some of the community's open space into a pavilion that could be used to by other groups as well. Can't you just see it when another group wanted to use it - no, it belongs to the pickelball club, we worked hard to get it.
The club is proposing a place that would have seating for about 40 people, a useable kitchen, storage and some grandstands on a piece of land just off the pickleball courts at the Cimarron Center. Why do they need a club house, if they get one I think the tennis folks should have one, etc.
The club, with roughly 675 members, was looking for the addition and is willing to put up about $20,000 of the estimated $100,000 cost. It likely would be look for support from Community and Resident Enhancement Committee. Wow, their support is only less than $31 per person...
The article goes on to say that a request from some on the board to hear the proposal before it goes through the entire association process to get funded, just to give them an idea if it is something that would be supported. I think that means the writing is on the wall...they will do it.
The board didn't have a problem with the design in its preliminary stages, but they did not mean it was destined for approval.
Board members made it clear, however, they were not approving the project and that is still had to go through the proper channels.
My question is, where is all this money coming from - the CARE fund was not over flowing, the last time I heard an update and if they are not generating dollars off housing sales --- I ask again, where is this money coming from. And if the Pickleball people can have a "club house" why not others. That is exactly what should have happened with the woodshop addition instead of squandering that kind of money for a few residents' hobby.
Even though these have not been approved yet...we are not only looking into spending money for marketing; excuse me "Image", but now looking into spending $80,000 (who knows what the actual dollar amount would end up to be) on a club house for Pickleball, because they need storage space. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I feel if a club really wants something, they should have to come up with a way to at least fund 50% of the project...they could do that by fund raising, etc.
I think if they are going to build on common areas, we should all have a vote to see if we agree that a new building should be build in our backyards. I personally do not want to see any more buildings - I would like to keep the open space open.
Sun City Grand is starting to act like the City of Surprise in the way they squander money. I ask again, where is all this money coming from?
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Ignorance Is Bliss
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 04:46 pm |
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Cindisue, You will not find the CAM Jam/Chat meeting on channel 22. The sound failed and the recording was worthless. This is unfortunate as this would have been a good one to watch.
Information about the meeting can be seen on two websites and I am pasting a section of both narratives. The narratives differ slightly. What neither state is that the article referenced had no mention of any $100,000 figure. I have seen the article but do not have a copy at hand. I'm not sure the article was in the Independent, it may have been in the Wester. The dollar figure was invented and only the person who asked the question could give the reason for the invention. Below are the narratives.
[size=]
[size=
Taken from the May 16 Summary of CAM Jam/Chat with the Board (from grandinfo.com)]
[size=Linda Lieber commented the Independent newspaper reported the Board is planning on ][size=using a budget in the amount of $100,000 for the marketing of Sun City Grand to bring in ][size=45 year olds.]
[size= ]
[size=Both John Such and Bill Sullivan reported neither of them had been interviewed for any][size=article. A sub-committee has just recently been formed to investigate, research and][size=develop a program. Budget considerations have not been discussed.]
[size= ]
| [u]Taken from the Stand for Grand website[/u] |
| [u]Cam[/u][u] Jam/Chat with Board – Wednesday, May 16,2007 – 6:30-7:30 pm[/u] |
10. Question regarding news article that Board is planning on spending $100,000 out of budget for advertising campaign for 42-year-old residents. Board said no truth to article. They will check the source. Many pro and con comments. Board planned meeting with realtors and believes some advertising is in order to keep community viable. This became quite controversial.
[size= ]
[size=]
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 03:42 pm |
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azsu, I'll keep my eye open for this meeting on Channel 22 and report back as to how it all came about. Like I said, maybe if we all watch the programming, we will be able to get the real information from the meetings we are watching (just like we do for the city council meetings); instead of getting it second hand in the paper on on this blog.
I do agree with you, that it is not need to be so rude about a resident, no matter if they had a reason to bring up a subject or not - just as I don't think there was any reason to embarrass the board as one poster suggested.
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azsu
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 02:23 pm |
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The $100,000 figure was brought up by a resident, Linda Lieber, at the Chat on May 16 and soundly denied by the Board as no budget had been discussed (see the narrative of the meeting on grandinfo). Linda accomplished what she wanted, and what she is known for, lobbing a grenade and seeing how much damage she can cause.
I think these remarks were uncalled for against a specific resident. It sounded like she was asking about a figure in the paper and wondering why the SCG board was involved with real estate marketing, when it should be the job of the realtors.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 04:36 am |
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| Thank you Ignorance Is Bliss. I'm sure it would behoove all of us to watch channel 22 programming to get the real deal, instead of relying on the newspapers, which you showed are not always correct. I for one will start watching on a regular basis.
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Ignorance Is Bliss
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 03:06 am |
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Cindisue, The proper people to ask about the "quotes" in the paper would be John and Bill as they are the people attributed to have what was printed. You should call the directly. They are in the directory. However, I can comment a bit on the comments as stated in the paper.
One of these Board members was quoted as saying the committee had been working for a couple months on the issues. This is interesting. These comments were supposedly made at either the Board workshop or the CAM Jam/Chats that occurred the week of May 7. The committee studying the issue was formulated sometime after the Board workshop held on April 12 - less than four weeks before the supposed comments were made. Was this an error in comment or an error in reporting? Three weeks is a lot less than a couple months. The committee had one organizational meeting in that three week period. As far as a comment concerning a possible budget - yes, it would make sense to have any budget determined prior to the preparation of the 2008 budget proposal. Was a figure given? No. It could be any figure - that is what the committee is working on. The $100,000 figure was brought up by a resident, Linda Lieber, at the Chat on May 16 and soundly denied by the Board as no budget had been discussed (see the narrative of the meeting on grandinfo). Linda accomplished what she wanted, and what she is known for, lobbing a grenade and seeing how much damage she can cause.
Is there a problem with misquotes in the papers? Yes, and it has been discussed with the reporters. The latest example occurred in last Saturday's Daily News-Sun concerning the retirement of Ed Harrold. The reporter quoted Mr. Noteboom as saying "We've worked for Ed a number of years.... and wish him the best". Anyone who knows anything about the association knows Ed works for the Board and he reports directly to the Board President (Mr. Noteboom). This is a good example of the reporter not listening to comments and writing what he thinks is right rather than checking if in doubt.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 01:14 am |
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| Ignorance Is Bliss, still waiting for your response. Come on, you always seem to have the answers!!
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sat Jun 16th, 2007 07:47 pm |
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Ignorance Is Bliss, you said that the committee only held one organizational meeting, how then do you explain The Wester article that clearly quotes board members as saying "Treasurer Bill Sullivan, who is heading up the group's committee efforts. A committee to discuss those efforts has been meeting for several months, but will start working in earnest now...." and another comment about a budget "John Such said the association will take a look at a multitude of options and plan for a marketing budget in the 2008 budget that will be effective Jan. 1."
If The Wester article mis-quoted the board members, then why did they not ask them to retract the article. You always seem to have the board's best interest at heart, then how do you explain the differences between what you know to be true and what the newspaper is quoting the board members that are part of this marketing plan. I would really like to hear you response as to the above quotes from board members. And please don't say wait for them to do their job and make a decision; based on what they told the newspaper, they have already made their decision to have a marketing budget.
And if they are planning a budget for marketing, why not just be upfront and say it, I'm sure there will be some residents for it and others against it, but you know that is life. It will be the board's decision if they do it or not, the residents that don't agree will have to live with it, and since it was already in the newspaper why wasn't it discussed at the May 24th meeting. It just seems that The Wester knows more about and gets more upfront information about Sun City Grand than many residents.
p.s. I don't think anyone is trying to embarrass the board as you said you want them to do in your comment "Bob, You have the perfect opportunity to embarrass the Board", people are hearing things and commenting on them that is all. I really don't think there is a reason to embarrass anyone and I am sorry you feel that someone should be embarrassed.Last edited on Sat Jun 16th, 2007 08:28 pm by cindisue_g
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Ignorance Is Bliss
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Posted: Sat Jun 16th, 2007 02:42 pm |
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Bob, You have the perfect opportunity to embarrass the Board. Identify your sources and give us the facts. No bulls**t, just the facts.
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Bob_the_golfer
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Posted: Sat Jun 16th, 2007 04:10 am |
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Based on my latest information the board is looking to spend 100K + to promote the sale of homes ===== Another item the board keep silence about during the recent vote??? ==== how many more items have been hidden for the residents??????
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 31st, 2007 11:14 pm |
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I'd talk to the board members who spoke with the newspaper. Here is what Nancy wrote about the article:
Interesting article in the 5/24 Wester, headline was "SCG looks to lure buyers to community New age restrictions, amenities vital to marketing".
it says: the Community Association Management is looking for ways to drum up business to keep houses selling and the people coming.
it goes on This will help the community maintain the image it has now, and we want to keep that, said CAM board Treasurer Bill Sullivan, who is heading up the group's committee efforts. A committee to discuss those efforts has been meeting for several months, but will start working in earnest now....
keeps going: Officials are not yet sure what form of marketing or advertising they will make. Board Vice President John Such said the association will take a look at a multitude of options and plan for a marketing budget in the 2008 budget that will be effective Jan. 1.
I believe if you read the comments you will notice no one said what went on at any meeting = we are simply voicing our concerns, opinions and how we would like things done - I guess it is not okay with you if we voice our opinions. And here I thought that was what the blog was for...foolish me, I guess you told us.
Last edited on Fri Jun 1st, 2007 12:53 am by cindisue_g
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Ignorance Is Bliss
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Posted: Thu May 31st, 2007 03:11 pm |
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The newly formed committee for continued promoting of SCG has held one organizational meeting and I am hearing and reading stories about what they planned, who they are going to hire and how much money they are going to spend. It sounds as though they had one hell of a meeting or someone is inventing a lot of phony information.
Would anyone who KNOWS what happened at that meeting please give some details. If no one has solid information, maybe it would be good to let the committee do thier work before commenting.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 31st, 2007 01:36 pm |
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| They have already upped the amount they collect on each sale, how about they take the extra $300 - $400 that they are collecting and use that to market Sun City Grand. Great idea Bob.
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Bob_the_golfer
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Posted: Thu May 31st, 2007 01:28 pm |
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If the board wants to spend money promoting the community ---- They should place a surcharge on every home sale. That way the people receiving the benefit (sale of thier house) would be paying for the cost.
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BikerDude
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 02:52 pm |
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The main reason is that people have been known to edit their posts. You have to "quote" to prove your point.
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sometimes rational
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