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Andyman
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:57 am |
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Dwigg I'm with you. 
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Nancy
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:48 am |
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| Would you two drop it, you sound like two two year olds at a playground fighting over a ball. Neither of you will ever see the other persons rational on this, so go on to something else.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:35 am |
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| Not only do you try to defend yourself, but you brag about what you've done. Pity.
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dwig222
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:32 am |
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:31 am |
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| Me thinks you have to have the last word defending your wrong doing. I'm afraid you will never see the wrong you did. Pity. Last edited on Tue May 29th, 2007 01:32 am by cindisue_g
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dwig222
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:32 am |
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I have an 8 year old grandson who is quite precocious. He always has to have the last word with his mom even if he has to say it under his breath so she doesn't hear him.
Cindisue has to have the last word on this matter. She doesn't understand the concept to agree to disagree and move on. Let's all let her have the last word when she responds to this post and trust me she will. The red ink, bold type and italics are giving me a headache. Over and out!
Off to the Parade - I think it will be lame.
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Nancy
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:18 am |
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| sometimes rational, a question. Just out of curiosity not trying to be rude, why do you have to copy the comments of the poster you wish to address. As far as mine was concerned, if someone wanted to see what I posted, all they would have to do is read my post, which by the way was under yours. It seems as though you and another poster have to copy every post you comment about. Just wondering why, seems like it takes up a lot of space for no reason.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:00 am |
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| As I said, it is a matter of integrity. Hopefully people that depend on PORA's recommendations will do more research, since we now know some of their contractors buy people off not to report them. It is very sad.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 11:47 pm |
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cindisue_g wrote: something rational you keep bring it up saying is right, you're wrong and it is wrong, it's a bribe clear and simple. If you don't want it brought up again, don't bring it up.
Actually, you brought up the B word to Andy a few posts ago. Had you not, I sure as hell would not have...this was a mialbox paint job, not Watergate.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 11:41 pm |
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| something rational you keep bring it up saying is right, you're wrong and it is wrong, it's a bribe clear and simple. If you don't want it brought up again, don't bring it up.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 11:30 pm |
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Nancy wrote: I have to say, this was the first time since I've owned my home (built it in July 2004) that I called to turn in one of my neighbors. It is a house for sale, with weeds probably 8 inches high. The worst thing, while the rest of us were out there in the hot sun spraying our weeds, he was here for a week and did nothing, nothing. When I called, someone had already turned him in, thank goodness. Well, he finally had someone come and spray, but to let the property go like this is atrocious.
One of my neighbors was turned in three times (by the same person, who apparently turns in 100 violations a month-she needs to get a life in my book); only 1 of them was valid - a small owl statue that was off her patio. I am happy that the person has to be identified, if I would have had to turn in my neighbor, I would not have cared if he knew it was me.
Personally, it's only do to negligence that I'd turn in a neighbor...I have a snow bird on my street who never has his weeds dealt with until he gets a CAM letter..but as far as little owls, go, they're fine...I think the restrictions here can be stifling at times. I like the idea of having to ID the complainent....too many others have nothing else to do but complain about tiny owls and such.
CINDISUE--I'm beggin' you....puleeeeeeeeeeze can we stop the 'bribe' allegations again DWIG? What you call a bribe, we're calling a settlement..We'll never agree on that..so..can we move on?...I will tell ya that if DWIG gets a release from the confidentiality agreement, i hope she tells me who the painter in...so i can hire him...I can repaint my mailox 1000 times over for $750 and, honestly, we don't think it's big deal...we know you do..but..enuf is enuf...OK? pleasesssse?
As far as the marketing of SCG--I don't get it..i really don't...why should residents not leaving have to financially support a marketing program? Is this going to be an ongoing program? and who benefits? I agree with the others opposed to it..Let's worry about those of us staying here and the realtors can worry about the marketing of Surprise homes inclding ours....it's what they get paid for..why should they get paid twice?
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Nancy
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 11:00 pm |
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I have to say, this was the first time since I've owned my home (built it in July 2004) that I called to turn in one of my neighbors. It is a house for sale, with weeds probably 8 inches high. The worst thing, while the rest of us were out there in the hot sun spraying our weeds, he was here for a week and did nothing, nothing. When I called, someone had already turned him in, thank goodness. Well, he finally had someone come and spray, but to let the property go like this is atrocious.
One of my neighbors was turned in three times (by the same person, who apparently turns in 100 violations a month-she needs to get a life in my book); only 1 of them was valid - a small owl statue that was off her patio. I am happy that the person has to be identified, if I would have had to turn in my neighbor, I would not have cared if he knew it was me.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 09:50 pm |
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Glad I'm not your neighbor as well. Just so you know, I have never turned in anyone and not because they bribed me.
But I am in favor of the person that complains having to identify themselves. Please get your facts straight, the standards office is just following state law; the state made it mandatory that the person filing the violation be named, Sun City Grand had nothing to do with the new law, other than abide by it. I'd take a bet that if you asked the standards office, they would like it to go back to anonymous.
Last edited on Mon May 28th, 2007 09:58 pm by cindisue_g
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Andyman
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 08:42 pm |
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Cindisue - I'm glad I don't have you for a neighbor. It sounds like you are one of the reasons the standards office made it mandatory to "identify" yourself if you put in a violations claim.
Market Sun City Grand with our homeowners funds? That won't get my vote.
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goldrush
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 08:00 pm |
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Billy-Bob, tell us more about your experience(s) with Cox. Why are they a "nasty"
company?
Last edited on Mon May 28th, 2007 08:00 pm by goldrush
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Billy-Bob
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Posted: Mon May 28th, 2007 03:31 pm |
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Why is SCG concerned about retirees buying into SCG? There are no more places like the GRAND! The Pulte thing west of the Tanks is a joke.
The Grand doesn't have to advertise, the word gets around. SCG is a prime place to retire. Although, I am beginning to worry about the Association Board. Sullivan seems to think SCG is his private play thing. This whole issure of advertising is a hoax by the real estate crooks....
I still say the age issue election has a bad smell about it..... We are going to hear more about it in the near future....
Plus, why is SCG spending money for a sound system for Cox cable?? I don't have Cox cable and would never do business with Cox again. From experience, I found Cox to be a very nasty company....
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Nancy
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 05:52 pm |
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Billy-Bob, I have to disagree with you. I don't think there was any ruse or conspiracy in dropping the age.
I do however disagree with using our yearly assessment for marketing. Putting ads in the Minneapolis Star Tribune or Chicago Tribune is not the answer, first it is very expenses and you would have to do it on a regular basis to get the publicity needed and secondly, I'm not sure that is where people are looking for their retirement homes. I believe people are looking at the Internet for their research. When one googles active adult communities in Arizona, does Sun City Grand come up anywhere.
I think the board should scour the residents for someone who was in the marketing field and knows how to market age specific items. Look to what they can do without spending any money, partner with the real estate agents and piggy back on their dollars, etc. I would not partner with Sun City or Sun City West, because I know when I was doing my research, I totally dismissed them; as did some of my Friends because of their perception and if we want to make people aware that we are truly an active adult community we would not want their perception to be ours.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 04:41 pm |
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dwigg222, sorry I used the wrong words, from what you said: In the case of Brock, he was going after us. If he had apologized on that very first communication, we would have dropped the matter. We had to go after him to keep our 800 plus credit score. You went after him because of your credit score, I am now assuming that you reported him to PORA and BBB.
Now I am really confused, you say: Obviously I want to protect my neighbors from sub-standard contractors or I wouldn't have gone to every possible agency available to expose Brock. Is it that Brock did not offer you a bribe to keep quiet, like the painter did. Now I understand, if they give you money you keep quiet, if they don't you go after them like a steamroller...
You also say: Obviously I have the intelligence to see that the painter was not a sub-standard contractor so I gladly signed the contract not to expose him so he could sleep at night and not worry about it. But you have also said about the painter: I can never describe how bad it was, but trust me it REALLY did look like a 2 yr old painted it. Sounds like sub-standard to me. Oh, I forgot he was not after your precious credit score, he just did sub-standard work. And now you did it so he could sleep at night and not worry about it; I think he would have slept better if you had declined the $700 bribe (you know he probably has a family to feed), take his apology and just let it slide - but no the money was most important to you.
If you are not stupid (your words) and took the $700, then you were smart enough to understand that it was a bribe, oh that is right you did, because you said: Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money??? It is a bribe, plain and simple, if you are so intelligent, I don't understand why you can't figure this out. Oh, maybe it is because the money is more important to you, remember you said: How could we refuse that kind of money???
If the punishment fits the crime, it is very simple that the next time you get sub-par work or taken advantage of, remember it is just KARMA paying you back.
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dwig222
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 04:04 pm |
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cindisue_g wrote: you took $700 (to spend on a cruise),
tried to extort money from Brock for your silence, taking them to court
You need to take a reading comprehension class and then re-read my two posts.
We were offered an out of court settlement of $750 - we were never offered any less. We would have taken $50 but it wasn't offered and we are not stupid.
We did not want a penny from Brock and obviously (duh) I'm not being silent about the name of the company
We never took Brock to court....where did I say that???
Obviously I want to protect my neighbors from sub-standard contractors or I wouldn't have gone to every possible agency available to expose Brock.
Obviously I have the intelligence to see that the painter was not a sub-standard contractor so I gladly signed the contract not to expose him so he could sleep at night and not worry about it.
Can you comprehend that? The punishment fits the crime. It's really very simple.
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Billy-Bob
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 03:48 pm |
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Now the other shoe drops... It seems the whole age issue was a ruse to use SCG money to fund promotion shemes for the Real Estate crooks.....
I think I mentioned that from the get-go of the phoney election on the age issue..
No wonder Sullivan refused to allow debate on the age issue....
SCG is NOT in the real estate business and our money should not be used to promote private business. I say the state attorney General should look into this mess....
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 02:33 pm |
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sometimes rational I agree, I do not feel that our dues should be used for a marketing budget. I do seem to remember the board talking about marketing at a board meeting. There are a lot of things that need to be done here, before we spend it trying to sell, as you said, houses for people that are leaving.
The one thing I worry about is that if they market to the 45 to 54 crowd, will that potentially scare off some of the older crowd, which is our bread and butter. If they do market, they have to be very careful on how they do it. We can't lose the older crowd for the younger one, since it is such a small percentage of our overall residents. I hate to say it, but if they are so dead set on marketing, I think they should hire a marketing firm, because I just don't feel that the board has the expertise to do it themselves and it could backfire on us.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 02:24 pm |
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dwigg222, at least you were honest about what you did with the bribe money.
I'd rather be called a saint (even though I'm not close, just a person who has cares about doing what is right), then what I think you are. You will never get it, that you took $700 (to spend on a cruise), instead of making sure your PORA and BBB knew about this contractor. Glad you had a great time on the cruise, but just remember KARMA always wins in the end. I don't wish you bad luck, but your actions do.
Seems like you probably tried to extort money from Brock for your silence (since you have obviously figured out a way to make some extra cash), but they wouldn't bend, so you are taking them to court under the pretense that it is because of our credit score...makes you go hmmmm doesn't it.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 04:53 am |
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| Bob, Nancy--i was thinkin' exactly the same thing...even tho i voted for the age reduction, the board had at least a moral obligation to tell us the rest of the story...that if and when the age got lowered, they would spend OUR money to market this place...the only ppl who would benefit from that are realtors and those of us leaving...how about using the money for those of us STAYING? I will never, trust those on the board again..I will assume they always have a hidden adgenda and will push to uncover it.....by the way, does anyone on the Bd either have a real estate license or is married to or have a relationship with a realtor?
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dwig222
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 03:30 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: sometimes rational, I am not opposed to out-of-court settlements for damages only - what I am opposed to is a bribe to be quiet and if you read dwig222 statements that is actually why she took the extra $700. In case you missed it: "Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money???"
dwigg222, if I were to ever hit your or sometimes rational's car, you can bet your last $700 dollars that we would both be reporting it to our insurance companies. And if by me following the rules of my insurance company causes your rates to go up, I guess you can swear my name when you pay your premiums and I will do the same if I ever get one of your sub-par contractors.
I guess integrity and honor just goes out the window for some, just for a measly amount of money, like $700. Just remember, what comes around goes around.
Just wanted to say that we were going on a Caribbean Cruise two days after this incident. We enjoyed the hush, bribe, silence, pay off, under the table, dirty money while drinking Mojitos on deck.
People - Cindisue will NEVER get it. She thinks she is a saint. She doesn't understand the concept - Punishment should fit the crime. She cannot comprehend this. Let's all walk away from Saint Cindisue.
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Bob_the_golfer
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 01:54 am |
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Just something else that was kept from the community prior to the vote ---- can you say hidden agenda.
what other cost/items are being kept from us???
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Nancy
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 09:34 pm |
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Interesting article in the 5/24 Wester, headline was "SCG looks to lure buyers to community New age restrictions, amenities vital to marketing".
it says: the Community Association Management is looking for ways to drum up business to keep houses selling and the people coming. (I thought that was the job of the real estate companies, that is why you hire them)
it goes on This will help the community maintain the image it has now, and we want to keep that, said CAM board Treasurer Bill Sullivan, who is heading up the group's committee efforts. A committee to discuss those efforts has been meeting for several months, but will start working in earnest now....
keeps going: Officials are not yet sure what form of marketing or advertising they will make. Board Vice President John Such said the association will take a look at a multitude of options and plan for a marketing budget in the 2008 budget that will be effective Jan. 1. (they didn't lie, they have not allocated any money yet, that is forthcoming)
Hopefully they are planning on some budget cuts in other areas to pay for this advertising; otherwise look for a big increase next year, advertising is very expensive.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 08:36 pm |
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sometimes rational, I am not opposed to out-of-court settlements for damages only - what I am opposed to is a bribe to be quiet and if you read dwig222 statements that is actually why she took the extra $700. In case you missed it: "Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money???"
dwigg222, if I were to ever hit your or sometimes rational's car, you can bet your last $700 dollars that we would both be reporting it to our insurance companies. And if by me following the rules of my insurance company causes your rates to go up, I guess you can swear my name when you pay your premiums and I will do the same if I ever get one of your sub-par contractors.
I guess integrity and honor just goes out the window for some, just for a measly amount of money, like $700. Just remember, what comes around goes around.
Last edited on Sat May 26th, 2007 08:41 pm by cindisue_g
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 08:01 pm |
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dwig222 wrote: cindisue_g wrote:
And let us hope you never run into my car, because I won't take your bribe not to report it, I'll go right to my insurance company and you would have to go to yours, thus causing your insurance premium to go up.
The number of claims/accidents in a particular area (Surprise) dictates to the insurance carriers the risk factor which relates to the premiums charged.
So your refusal to allow someone to make you whole again by fixing your car and giving you punitive damages will eventually result in higher premiums for Suprise.
To quote you........."unfortunately your neighbors will pay the price in the end."
dwig--I guess the deal with Cindisue is a very strong oppostion to out of court settlements...she appearently sees them as an ethics violation...Oh, well, enjoy your $750 ...(let's see what happens if Cindisue ever runs in either of our cars).
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dwig222
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 05:04 pm |
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cindisue_g wrote:
And let us hope you never run into my car, because I won't take your bribe not to report it, I'll go right to my insurance company and you would have to go to yours, thus causing your insurance premium to go up.
The number of claims/accidents in a particular area (Surprise) dictates to the insurance carriers the risk factor which relates to the premiums charged.
So your refusal to allow someone to make you whole again by fixing your car and giving you punitive damages will eventually result in higher premiums for Suprise.
To quote you........."unfortunately your neighbors will pay the price in the end."
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 03:37 pm |
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something rational, it is unfortunate that you are putting words in my mouth. You said: a $50 painting error is not the same as a $1000000 medical error, yet you would treat them the same and that's unfortunate. I never said or insinuated this. There is a big difference between a person with $50 painting error taking $750 to not report a contractor and a mother who loses her child to malpractice or a person who loses their limb because of malpractice. In the instance of malpractice, the judgment is based on the loss and is decided by a judge and/or jury, I have no problem with this. I would have no problem if dwigg222 would have taken him to small claims court and the court decided that she go the $50 back and $50 for court costs and $50 for her trouble.
And let us hope you never run into my car, because I won't take your bribe not to report it, I'll go right to my insurance company and you would have to go to yours, thus causing your insurance premium to go up.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Sat May 26th, 2007 06:56 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: something rational, sorry you don't agree with me - don't agree with you either. Paying for damage; such as an auto accident (keep in mind I would go through my insurance company no matter what) is a little different, your scenario is to pay an extra $1,000 not to report it probably because they have had too many accidents and possibly would loose their license, yes that would be a bribe and unethical in my book. I guess it would be alright with you to not report the accident and have someone that is obviously a hazard to all other drivers stay on the road.
As long as we have resident that will take money "not report" a contractor, we will all pay the price in the end. Doesn't it make you wonder, since it was so easy to buy dwig222 off, how many contractors do this daily...and then we call PORA or BBB looking for reputable contractors and have the chance of getting the same person dwigg222 did that did work that looked like a 2 year old did it.
And please understand I am not upset, I'd disgusted with the likes of people that cares more about what they can get, than what is right.
Well, to begin with, your assumption regarding motivation for settling an accident at the scene sure, in my case, would not be based on my driving record since I have had neither a ticket nor an accident in a very long time...but the purpose of insurance, in my view, is not to prove that someone else is at fault even if they are..the purpose of insurance is to assure financial stabilty and protection from major loss...I'd never ever file a claim for $50 damage done either to my home or car..and i would not try to jam up a contractor over a minor error...I don't know what kind of work you do or did but hopefully, if you made a minor error resulting in no permenent damage, as DWIG's painter did, your customer hopefully did not call your boss to try to get you fired particualry if you corrected the error..it's about perspective...a $50 painting error is not the same as a $1000000 medical error, yet you would treat them the same and that's unfortunate.
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goldrush
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 08:01 pm |
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. . . check your auto policy. Reporting accidents is a contractual obligation. This is not to say that many accidents go unreported for fear of premium increases.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 01:46 pm |
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something rational, sorry you don't agree with me - don't agree with you either. Paying for damage; such as an auto accident (keep in mind I would go through my insurance company no matter what) is a little different, your scenario is to pay an extra $1,000 not to report it probably because they have had too many accidents and possibly would loose their license, yes that would be a bribe and unethical in my book. I guess it would be alright with you to not report the accident and have someone that is obviously a hazard to all other drivers stay on the road.
As long as we have resident that will take money "not report" a contractor, we will all pay the price in the end. Doesn't it make you wonder, since it was so easy to buy dwig222 off, how many contractors do this daily...and then we call PORA or BBB looking for reputable contractors and have the chance of getting the same person dwigg222 did that did work that looked like a 2 year old did it.
And please understand I am not upset, I'd disgusted with the likes of people that cares more about what they can get, than what is right.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Fri May 25th, 2007 06:40 am |
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BB35 wrote: Wooooo, The painter scams are at it again... There is a bunch called the Irish Travelers (Gypsies). It is a clan of professional thieves. They are based in North Carolina. 60 minutes did a show about them a few years ago...
They travel the country with phoney house painting, roof repair, driveway, and yard scams. PORA knows about them. The Suprise police do not.... Phoenix police have arrested some of the gang...
According to PORA the Irish painters have about five companies that are based in Mesa. They all have the same 1-800 number for so called warranty work... When one name gets too hot they switch to another (so much for the warranty)...
They don't paint your house with real paint, they use some kind of clear plastic polymer. I talked to a local legitimate (PORA) painter and he said that he will not paint a house with that crap on it as real paint will not stick to it properly. He said that the house will have to be sand blasted to remove the crap paint.... Also realitors are getting wise about the bad paint and want the owners to remove it... At least this is what I have been told.
The Irish painter salesmen are very aggressive and will try to push their way into your home... I fought the bastards for two years and finally had to call the cops when they threatened me with something that looked like a gun... The Susprise cops responded quickly and caught the guy. The cops said to put a no solicitors sign on the door. That seem to help..
Another ruse they use is to pretend to live a few streets over and really admire your house and start asking personal questions about this and that.....
1. NEVER buy anything from people beating on your door.... PORA
2. NEVER, NEVER talk to strangers knocking on your door asking questions about your house. PORA
3. Never do business with a company that has no local phone number. PORA advices this...
4. NEVER do business with unlicensed contractors...
Some of the Irish scammers speak with a charming Irish brough. They can charm the birds out of the trees....
SCG standards office never heard of the Irish scammers...
Not a good idea to cancel a payment check for services preformed. This will cause major credit problems for you. Your best recourse is to file with the local small calims court if the amount is low enough. Otherwise you will need a lawyer. Better yet, if the amount is under $1000, wear a sign that says SUCKER and get over it.. Cheapest way out....
Good LUCK
ok--I;m confused..you write that the paint is clear, plastic polymer...If it is clear, it will not cover up the wear and dappleing the existing paint has and if that's the case, why would anyone pay for the job. There is a very expensive elastic kinda paint being used which claims to have a life time warrenty and uses ceramic beads in the mix...it cost about 5x the amount of acrylic Dunn/Edwards ...it was tested and found to be long lasting and able to cover hairline cracks...but man, it's a lot of money for paint. You are part right about stopping payment on a check..but..if you instead sue in justice Court (under $10K) and win, you're still left with the problem of collecting on your judgement and if these painters are really 'gypsies', they'll be gone way before it even gets to court.
CINDISUE--I've read other posts of yours and generally agree with them but in the matter of DWIG accepting $750 to settle his claim, I think you're way off base and being judgemental. If I ran into your car and offered you $2000 with the understanding that you do not report the $1000 damage to either of our insurance companies, I infer from what you wrote that it would be a bribe of some sort and unethical. It's not a bribe..it's payment for damages,,,and you should know that nearly all payments to plaintiffs involved in malpractice suits settled out of court, are with the stipulation that the nature of the case and settlement shall be confidential...if you'd like to get upset, get upset about that rather than the $50 minor issue that DWIG wrote of..I once had a counter made and the contractor used the wrong color...rather then make him redo it or sue him in the event he refused as well as reporting it to the appropriate state agnecy, we agreed that he would wallpaper and paint the nearby wall suprfaces to match the counter.. it was a negotiated settlement,,,that is what DWIG did...it was not about brain surgery, it was about a botched mailbox painting.
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BB35
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 06:07 pm |
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Wooooo, The painter scams are at it again... There is a bunch called the Irish Travelers (Gypsies). It is a clan of professional thieves. They are based in North Carolina. 60 minutes did a show about them a few years ago...
They travel the country with phoney house painting, roof repair, driveway, and yard scams. PORA knows about them. The Suprise police do not.... Phoenix police have arrested some of the gang...
According to PORA the Irish painters have about five companies that are based in Mesa. They all have the same 1-800 number for so called warranty work... When one name gets too hot they switch to another (so much for the warranty)...
They don't paint your house with real paint, they use some kind of clear plastic polymer. I talked to a local legitimate (PORA) painter and he said that he will not paint a house with that crap on it as real paint will not stick to it properly. He said that the house will have to be sand blasted to remove the crap paint.... Also realitors are getting wise about the bad paint and want the owners to remove it... At least this is what I have been told.
The Irish painter salesmen are very aggressive and will try to push their way into your home... I fought the bastards for two years and finally had to call the cops when they threatened me with something that looked like a gun... The Susprise cops responded quickly and caught the guy. The cops said to put a no solicitors sign on the door. That seem to help..
Another ruse they use is to pretend to live a few streets over and really admire your house and start asking personal questions about this and that.....
1. NEVER buy anything from people beating on your door.... PORA
2. NEVER, NEVER talk to strangers knocking on your door asking questions about your house. PORA
3. Never do business with a company that has no local phone number. PORA advices this...
4. NEVER do business with unlicensed contractors...
Some of the Irish scammers speak with a charming Irish brough. They can charm the birds out of the trees....
SCG standards office never heard of the Irish scammers...
Not a good idea to cancel a payment check for services preformed. This will cause major credit problems for you. Your best recourse is to file with the local small calims court if the amount is low enough. Otherwise you will need a lawyer. Better yet, if the amount is under $1000, wear a sign that says SUCKER and get over it.. Cheapest way out....
Good LUCK
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 05:09 pm |
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| Oh, now you are trying to joke it off. Nice, really nice.
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 04:59 pm |
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Jeez Cindisue - take a deep breath!
Maybe I just didn't want to get "wacked" by the General Contractors Mafia.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 02:37 pm |
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I hope the next time you take a $700 bribe, you think about the next customer of that contractor, who will have to go through aggravation because of the kind of work they did. But that is alright with you, because you got your money that you were so proud about.
You just don't get it - money to not turn someone in is a bribe and unfortunately your neighbors will pay the price in the end. Thanks for being a good Sun City Grand neighbor.
And by the way, I guess you were vindictive enough to threaten the contractor over $50 - I guess you figured out the system: Threaten them and hopefully they will pay you off.
Last edited on Thu May 24th, 2007 02:40 pm by cindisue_g
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 02:19 pm |
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I hope the next time you destroy someone's reputation and put them out of business because you are so vindictive over a small mistake you can live with yourself. I couldn't.
You just don't get it, do you?
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 01:52 pm |
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You said: The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet. Thus saying that contractors are buying people off, thus PORA and BBB does not have accurate records about the contractors. Thus sub-par contractors are on their lists as qualified contractors. Thus those of us that call PORA or BBB could get sub-par, non licensed contractors - why because people like you will take $750 not to say anything.
You said: If I would have reported him over a $50 mistake that one of his illegal employees decided to screw him with, he could have potentially lost many thousands of dollars on future paint jobs. No, but by taking $750, you have added to the problem, especially since you said the work looked like that of a 2 year old.
No need to evaluate the situation, it is plain and simple, $750 was worth more to you than your neighbors and your community; not to mention your integrity. Oh and lest I forget, your credit score is worth more than anything to you, so it is okay to be nasty and vindictive when that is involved.
Let me see, a $50 mistake, $750 in "keep quiet money" - no it is not restitution or a refund - it is a bribe not to report him.
Still hope you can sleep well, knowing your neighbors might be using a contractor that might not have a license and does sub-par work. I guess what hit me the worst was that you were so proud of what you did and got: Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money???
Hope you bragged to your neighbors, so they know what you are all about.
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 12:30 pm |
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cindisue_g wrote:
based on what dwigg222 is saying, there is really no need, because the contractors are just buying everyone off all while they do sub-par work or are working without a license - it comes down to greed. Greed on the part of the contractor, not wanting to have a black mark which could mean a loss of business and greed on the homeowners part, by taking money to not report the contractor to PORA.
I just hope all of those that have taken bribe money not to turn in a contractor can sleep knowing that because of them a sub-par contractor is representing themselves to Sun City Grand and the other communities as a contractor in good standing...I just think it is very sad. I guess I've always thought "right" is more important than money. Too bad others don't feel the same, if they did, I bet there would be a lot less sub-par contractors out there.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said "there is no need" to check with PORA and BBB. I said that sometimes things happen that are not reported. By all means check with every single person/agency you can.
Also, I didn't consider it "bribe" money. It was restitution - my exact words. Some of us are just not as vindictive as you obviously are.
If I would have reported him over a $50 mistake that one of his illegal employees decided to screw him with, he could have potentially lost many thousands of dollars on future paint jobs. That is not fair. He happened to paint three other houses on my street that same week and did a good job. He also did a good job on my house.
It's one thing to report someone like Brock to recover my damages. But it's down right nasty to report someone who is bending over backwards to rectify the problem. Cindisue, you need to evaluate the situation before you react. The punishment should fit the crime.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 05:24 am |
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Your questions: if an offer of $750 is insufficient to buy your silence, at what figure would you agree, if any, not to compain about a contractor? $2000" $3000? of course I will answer the questions, is very easy to answer, I would not take any amount of money to not report a contractor that is doing the kind of work that dwigg222 said. I would have first given them the opportunity to make it right by having them re-do the work; if at that point they did not have the workmanship that they promised, I would have reported them to PORA and hired another contractor to do the work. Seems like you feel if the ante was high enough, it would be okay - sorry but I wasn't raised to think that way.
Your scenario was a bit different, you knew that the person you hired was not licensed. When I hire a contractor, I try to do my homework, I call PORA for recommendations, I call the BBB to see if there are any complaints - based on what dwigg222 is saying, there is really no need, because the contractors are just buying everyone off all while they do sub-par work or are working without a license - it comes down to greed. Greed on the part of the contractor, not wanting to have a black mark which could mean a loss of business and greed on the homeowners part, by taking money to not report the contractor to PORA.
I just hope all of those that have taken bribe money not to turn in a contractor can sleep knowing that because of them a sub-par contractor is representing themselves to Sun City Grand and the other communities as a contractor in good standing...I just think it is very sad. I guess I've always thought "right" is more important than money. Too bad others don't feel the same, if they did, I bet there would be a lot less sub-par contractors out there.
One thing to think about, if others before dwigg222 would have not done what they did, dwigg222 probably would have hired a contractor that did satisfactory work in the first place, because you could trust what PORA or BBB said. Just something to think about next time you have to hire someone to do some work at your house.
Last edited on Thu May 24th, 2007 05:34 am by cindisue_g
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 04:24 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: You said: Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money??? The difference between you and me - I could not take $750 or any figure to keep my mouth shut, I could not sleep at night if I thought another homeowner would hire someone who does shoddy work or as you put it I can never describe how bad it was, but trust me it REALLY did look like a 2 yr old painted it. It has nothing to do with forgiveness, it has to do with integrity.
You also said: The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet and most people see that as restitution and forgive. Yes, they do pay people off to keep quiet and you are one of them for a mere $750, that is pretty sad. Again it is a matter of integrity.
You also said about Brock: We had to go after him to keep our 800 plus credit score. Nice to see your credit score is more important than your honor. integrity or ability to forgive.
Cindisue--I would not be that judgemental...$750 is a lot of money to some people, a small amount to others..We don't know the whole story....and what's important is the trend --whether the treatment DWIG received is representative of typical responses from the contractor...first, since Dwig said she would would have been happy with $50, the problem could not have been that serious to begin with..so, the $750 payment seemed very generous in return for not reporting what seems to have been a minor issue. I'll take a very wild guess: the painters ROC license had expired and he was concerned about a $1500 fine plus court cost. Personally, I once hired a non licensed contractor--I knew his license had expired--based on the recommendations or about 5-6 people...other licensed contractors had a number of complaints..I'll be curious to see if you'll answer the following question: if an offer of $750 is insufficient to buy your silence, at what figure would you agree, if any, not to compain about a contractor? $2000" $3000?
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 03:36 am |
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You said: Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money??? The difference between you and me - I could not take $750 or any figure to keep my mouth shut, I could not sleep at night if I thought another homeowner would hire someone who does shoddy work or as you put it I can never describe how bad it was, but trust me it REALLY did look like a 2 yr old painted it. It has nothing to do with forgiveness, it has to do with integrity.
You also said: The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet and most people see that as restitution and forgive. Yes, they do pay people off to keep quiet and you are one of them for a mere $750, that is pretty sad. Again it is a matter of integrity.
You also said about Brock: We had to go after him to keep our 800 plus credit score. Nice to see your credit score is more important than your honor. integrity or ability to forgive.
Last edited on Thu May 24th, 2007 03:39 am by cindisue_g
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 01:22 am |
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goldrush wrote: Have had similar bad experiences with Brock. Try a local firm called Jaycox. I've been happy with them.
We actually did call Jaycox last year just to check it out and make sure it was running good. They spent a long time checking it and found nothing. I think the price for the service call was very resonable.
We originally called Brock because they installed it. I will highly recommend Jaycox also!
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 01:17 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: Guess it just proves that someone's payoff, will ultimately become someone else's misery. I guess I have a different set of ethics, I would rather report someone for doing a bad job so that other people would not get shabby workmanship, then taking money to keep quiet.
I guess you are not a forgiving person. The owner of the company did not do the damage. I gladly signed the release as it was not our intention to give the guy a stroke from worry. We expected a small rebate to hire another professional painter to fix the problem. At first, he wasn't willing to give us a rebate, he wanted to send those same illegal workers back to fix it. We would have sued him for the cost of another paint job had he not made us an offer. But we are not so vindictive that we would feel the need to "report" him no matter how much money he offered. We are just not that nasty. He explained that the $750 was his profit and he was more than willing to waive that amount.
The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet and most people see that as restitution and forgive.
In the case of Brock, he was going after us. If he had apologized on that very first communication, we would have dropped the matter. We had to go after him to keep our 800 plus credit score.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 12:14 am |
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| Guess it just proves that someone's payoff, will ultimately become someone else's misery. I guess I have a different set of ethics, I would rather report someone for doing a bad job so that other people would not get shabby workmanship, then taking money to keep quiet.
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goldrush
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 12:11 am |
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Have had similar bad experiences with Brock. Try a local firm called Jaycox. I've been happy with them.
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dwig222
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