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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 05:09 pm |
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| Oh, now you are trying to joke it off. Nice, really nice.
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 04:59 pm |
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Jeez Cindisue - take a deep breath!
Maybe I just didn't want to get "wacked" by the General Contractors Mafia.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 02:37 pm |
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I hope the next time you take a $700 bribe, you think about the next customer of that contractor, who will have to go through aggravation because of the kind of work they did. But that is alright with you, because you got your money that you were so proud about.
You just don't get it - money to not turn someone in is a bribe and unfortunately your neighbors will pay the price in the end. Thanks for being a good Sun City Grand neighbor.
And by the way, I guess you were vindictive enough to threaten the contractor over $50 - I guess you figured out the system: Threaten them and hopefully they will pay you off.
Last edited on Thu May 24th, 2007 02:40 pm by cindisue_g
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 02:19 pm |
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I hope the next time you destroy someone's reputation and put them out of business because you are so vindictive over a small mistake you can live with yourself. I couldn't.
You just don't get it, do you?
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 01:52 pm |
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You said: The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet. Thus saying that contractors are buying people off, thus PORA and BBB does not have accurate records about the contractors. Thus sub-par contractors are on their lists as qualified contractors. Thus those of us that call PORA or BBB could get sub-par, non licensed contractors - why because people like you will take $750 not to say anything.
You said: If I would have reported him over a $50 mistake that one of his illegal employees decided to screw him with, he could have potentially lost many thousands of dollars on future paint jobs. No, but by taking $750, you have added to the problem, especially since you said the work looked like that of a 2 year old.
No need to evaluate the situation, it is plain and simple, $750 was worth more to you than your neighbors and your community; not to mention your integrity. Oh and lest I forget, your credit score is worth more than anything to you, so it is okay to be nasty and vindictive when that is involved.
Let me see, a $50 mistake, $750 in "keep quiet money" - no it is not restitution or a refund - it is a bribe not to report him.
Still hope you can sleep well, knowing your neighbors might be using a contractor that might not have a license and does sub-par work. I guess what hit me the worst was that you were so proud of what you did and got: Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money???
Hope you bragged to your neighbors, so they know what you are all about.
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 12:30 pm |
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cindisue_g wrote:
based on what dwigg222 is saying, there is really no need, because the contractors are just buying everyone off all while they do sub-par work or are working without a license - it comes down to greed. Greed on the part of the contractor, not wanting to have a black mark which could mean a loss of business and greed on the homeowners part, by taking money to not report the contractor to PORA.
I just hope all of those that have taken bribe money not to turn in a contractor can sleep knowing that because of them a sub-par contractor is representing themselves to Sun City Grand and the other communities as a contractor in good standing...I just think it is very sad. I guess I've always thought "right" is more important than money. Too bad others don't feel the same, if they did, I bet there would be a lot less sub-par contractors out there.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said "there is no need" to check with PORA and BBB. I said that sometimes things happen that are not reported. By all means check with every single person/agency you can.
Also, I didn't consider it "bribe" money. It was restitution - my exact words. Some of us are just not as vindictive as you obviously are.
If I would have reported him over a $50 mistake that one of his illegal employees decided to screw him with, he could have potentially lost many thousands of dollars on future paint jobs. That is not fair. He happened to paint three other houses on my street that same week and did a good job. He also did a good job on my house.
It's one thing to report someone like Brock to recover my damages. But it's down right nasty to report someone who is bending over backwards to rectify the problem. Cindisue, you need to evaluate the situation before you react. The punishment should fit the crime.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 05:24 am |
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Your questions: if an offer of $750 is insufficient to buy your silence, at what figure would you agree, if any, not to compain about a contractor? $2000" $3000? of course I will answer the questions, is very easy to answer, I would not take any amount of money to not report a contractor that is doing the kind of work that dwigg222 said. I would have first given them the opportunity to make it right by having them re-do the work; if at that point they did not have the workmanship that they promised, I would have reported them to PORA and hired another contractor to do the work. Seems like you feel if the ante was high enough, it would be okay - sorry but I wasn't raised to think that way.
Your scenario was a bit different, you knew that the person you hired was not licensed. When I hire a contractor, I try to do my homework, I call PORA for recommendations, I call the BBB to see if there are any complaints - based on what dwigg222 is saying, there is really no need, because the contractors are just buying everyone off all while they do sub-par work or are working without a license - it comes down to greed. Greed on the part of the contractor, not wanting to have a black mark which could mean a loss of business and greed on the homeowners part, by taking money to not report the contractor to PORA.
I just hope all of those that have taken bribe money not to turn in a contractor can sleep knowing that because of them a sub-par contractor is representing themselves to Sun City Grand and the other communities as a contractor in good standing...I just think it is very sad. I guess I've always thought "right" is more important than money. Too bad others don't feel the same, if they did, I bet there would be a lot less sub-par contractors out there.
One thing to think about, if others before dwigg222 would have not done what they did, dwigg222 probably would have hired a contractor that did satisfactory work in the first place, because you could trust what PORA or BBB said. Just something to think about next time you have to hire someone to do some work at your house.
Last edited on Thu May 24th, 2007 05:34 am by cindisue_g
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 04:24 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: You said: Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money??? The difference between you and me - I could not take $750 or any figure to keep my mouth shut, I could not sleep at night if I thought another homeowner would hire someone who does shoddy work or as you put it I can never describe how bad it was, but trust me it REALLY did look like a 2 yr old painted it. It has nothing to do with forgiveness, it has to do with integrity.
You also said: The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet and most people see that as restitution and forgive. Yes, they do pay people off to keep quiet and you are one of them for a mere $750, that is pretty sad. Again it is a matter of integrity.
You also said about Brock: We had to go after him to keep our 800 plus credit score. Nice to see your credit score is more important than your honor. integrity or ability to forgive.
Cindisue--I would not be that judgemental...$750 is a lot of money to some people, a small amount to others..We don't know the whole story....and what's important is the trend --whether the treatment DWIG received is representative of typical responses from the contractor...first, since Dwig said she would would have been happy with $50, the problem could not have been that serious to begin with..so, the $750 payment seemed very generous in return for not reporting what seems to have been a minor issue. I'll take a very wild guess: the painters ROC license had expired and he was concerned about a $1500 fine plus court cost. Personally, I once hired a non licensed contractor--I knew his license had expired--based on the recommendations or about 5-6 people...other licensed contractors had a number of complaints..I'll be curious to see if you'll answer the following question: if an offer of $750 is insufficient to buy your silence, at what figure would you agree, if any, not to compain about a contractor? $2000" $3000?
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 03:36 am |
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You said: Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money??? The difference between you and me - I could not take $750 or any figure to keep my mouth shut, I could not sleep at night if I thought another homeowner would hire someone who does shoddy work or as you put it I can never describe how bad it was, but trust me it REALLY did look like a 2 yr old painted it. It has nothing to do with forgiveness, it has to do with integrity.
You also said: The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet and most people see that as restitution and forgive. Yes, they do pay people off to keep quiet and you are one of them for a mere $750, that is pretty sad. Again it is a matter of integrity.
You also said about Brock: We had to go after him to keep our 800 plus credit score. Nice to see your credit score is more important than your honor. integrity or ability to forgive.
Last edited on Thu May 24th, 2007 03:39 am by cindisue_g
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 01:22 am |
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goldrush wrote: Have had similar bad experiences with Brock. Try a local firm called Jaycox. I've been happy with them.
We actually did call Jaycox last year just to check it out and make sure it was running good. They spent a long time checking it and found nothing. I think the price for the service call was very resonable.
We originally called Brock because they installed it. I will highly recommend Jaycox also!
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dwig222
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 01:17 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: Guess it just proves that someone's payoff, will ultimately become someone else's misery. I guess I have a different set of ethics, I would rather report someone for doing a bad job so that other people would not get shabby workmanship, then taking money to keep quiet.
I guess you are not a forgiving person. The owner of the company did not do the damage. I gladly signed the release as it was not our intention to give the guy a stroke from worry. We expected a small rebate to hire another professional painter to fix the problem. At first, he wasn't willing to give us a rebate, he wanted to send those same illegal workers back to fix it. We would have sued him for the cost of another paint job had he not made us an offer. But we are not so vindictive that we would feel the need to "report" him no matter how much money he offered. We are just not that nasty. He explained that the $750 was his profit and he was more than willing to waive that amount.
The point of my post was to state that PORA, BBB, etc. do not always have records of every single incident with these contractors. They do pay people off to keep quiet and most people see that as restitution and forgive.
In the case of Brock, he was going after us. If he had apologized on that very first communication, we would have dropped the matter. We had to go after him to keep our 800 plus credit score.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 12:14 am |
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| Guess it just proves that someone's payoff, will ultimately become someone else's misery. I guess I have a different set of ethics, I would rather report someone for doing a bad job so that other people would not get shabby workmanship, then taking money to keep quiet.
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goldrush
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Posted: Thu May 24th, 2007 12:11 am |
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Have had similar bad experiences with Brock. Try a local firm called Jaycox. I've been happy with them.
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dwig222
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Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2007 11:05 pm |
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I also had a similar incident with a house painter. I had to sign a contract that I would never disclose the name of the paint company so I can't say who it is.
He had to send two of his men back to color correct paint on my mailbox (one of the ones that looks like a liitle house). They were mad and painted like a two year old. I can never describe how bad it was, but trust me it REALLY did look like a 2 yr old painted it.
My husband was so mad he almost got into a fist fight with the owner in our driveway. We threatened to take him to court (we had pictures). We would have been happy with him giving us back $50 bucks. Instead he gave us $750!!!! For that $750 we had to sign a contract saying that we would never tell BBB, PORA, SCG Homeowners Association, Reg. of Contractors and the list goes on. How could we refuse that kind of money???
So the bottom line here is that checking with BBB, PORA, etc isn't even enough in some cases. They pay people off to keep quiet. We checked this guy out with all those places and he had a clean record.
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dwig222
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Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2007 07:59 pm |
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sometimes rational wrote: DWIG: was this an issue of deception with Brock or quality of work? I am in a position where I hear many complaints about contractors and I'd guess that 90% or more are about fraud rather that of quality of work issues...can't say it enuf: get several estimates before you have work done. Check with PORA; check for complaints with the ROC; check with the BBB. Actually the BBB was very helpful to me on two occasions.
It was a fraud issue. Basically we had a tech come out because we were getting hot air two summers ago when the heat was breaking records. The tech told us he could only put freon in it because he didn't have the tools he needed to check for leaks, etc. He charged $155 and told us to call his office to schedule a service call (I thought that was what we scheduled in the first place). Three days later Brock's receptionist told me the guy lied to us because all of their technicians have everything they need on their truck to test for everything. I got mad when I realized that now someone was going to have to come out again and I would have to pay for another service call and more freon just because someone lied to us. Brock wouldn't budge even after admitting that the guy lied and got in trouble for it. Lucky for me the check hadn't cleared so I stopped payment on it. You would have thought I stopped payment on a million dollar check! They threatened me, sent me nasty letters and believe it or not, sent a letter to the the Attorney General saying that I wrote them an "insufficient funds" check. I had to show the AG's office that I had plenty of money in the bank that day and it was a "stopped payment".
Even though I didn't have to, because Brock didn't have my money, I went to BBB, PORA, and the Registrar of Contractors. Brock didn't care about any of it except the R of C. I was smart enough to only commuicate with him via e-mail so I would have a paper record of his lies. The day before our R of C hearing, he sent me what I had been requesting all along (for about five months) - a receipt showing that the account was credited $155 and we had a zero balance. I couldn't believe that a big company like Brock would hassle me so bad when they knew they were in the wrong. If they do that to people that owe them $155 can you imagine what they do to people that owe them a lot more money!
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BB35
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Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2007 02:56 pm |
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Yeah, rational;
It is not worth the trouble to fight for a few bucks. The stress involved isn't worth it.. Money is not a problem. Besides, Del Webb (origional) more than made up for it. They gave us great service when the front patio fell in (due to rain, s**t happens). Plus we got some nice freebies on the house...
My step father was a construction super on phase one Sun City. He knew Del Webb and thought the world of him. Del Webb was a great man.... So when it came time for us to retire, a Del Webb home was number one on my list....
I was very sad to see Pulte take over. I would never have bought a Pulte house. They have a very bad reputation on the east coast..
We love living in the Grand. Yeah, there are problems, but most are minor in nature compared to SCW. Surprise is a good town... SCW would be wise to let Surprise annex them...
I think the board is doing a good job and so is the support staff. So, we make a point of staying away from the Jam meetings and have no contract with the association, other than paying dues. We don't sweat the small stuff.
I must admit that the recent age issue turned out to be a good idea. It should work al long as the board enforces the age limits.... But, I think golf is a dying sport and that SCW has a good idea of cutting costs by doing desert landscapeing in the no play areas and having the owners of the golf course houses pick up some of the maintaince costs.
Boy, wait until the golf course maintaince workers unionize under the new immigration law. We will be lucky to keep one golf course open....
We don't play golf, because way too much stress and most golfers are not nice people anyway. Probably due to stress and alcohol....
Most of our friends live outside the Grand. Learned the hard way long ago, not a good idea to get too friendly with your neighbors..
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 04:26 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: sometimes rational trust me Ignorance Is Bliss knows all about the board, as a matter of fact, the only time he posts is to defend the board.
Wonder why he didn't respond to your question about spending funds marketing Sun City Grand. If they are thinking about it, would it be considered maintaining the association assets or to provide programming for the residents.
Well, maybe he is on the Bd..maybe he was on the Bd and is no longer...in either case, he (or she) is missing an opportunity to help us understand how the Bd. operates..at the last Chat w/ the Bd I attended, John Such shot down several ideas from residents...that's fine..he has right to disagree..but does he represent the entire Bd. who had no opportunity to provide their input or does he just represent himself? If he represents the entire Bd. then I suppose we just need a one person BD..please understand, I am not being sarcastic, but I don't understand the Bds. obligation to residents nor do I understand its accountability to residents..Perhaps there should be an advisory Bd of some kind to issues are heard and not just those agenda driven. IGGY!! are you out there??Come back to us, baby!
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 04:09 am |
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DWIG: was this an issue of deception with Brock or quality of work? I am in a position where I hear many complaints about contractors and I'd guess that 90% or more are about fraud rather that of quality of work issues...can't say it enuf: get several estimates before you have work done. Check with PORA; check for complaints with the ROC; check with the BBB. Actually the BBB was very helpful to me on two occasions.
BB35: with respect to you paying Del Webb or Pulte for a 12 SEER and getting a 10SEER unit instead; you are wrong when you say it would cost more to fight than it is worth. It won't cost you anything to fight and I'm sure you'll win if you have the documentation...even tho you no longer have the original unit, you paid for a product (12 SEER) and didn't not receive it..You are entitled to the difference betw the cost of the two units..if you have contacted Del Webb/Pulte and they refuse to do the right thing, try the ROC and or the BBB...or file a claim in Justice Court for a small filing fee which you will ask for in your demand. You will not need an attorney. Send a certified letter to the Pulte legal department of your intention to sue..if it's a losing case for them, they'll just pay you...if you go thru court mandated mediation, insist on nothing less than the full amount of the cost difference..come on, man, take them on! Re: Trane in general, my friend service AC for over 30 yrs and he likes that brand best, too. he does not feel that annual checks are useful tho as far as preventing further break-downs or predicting break-downs...but, as you agreed, some warrenties require that they be performed.
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dwig222
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 01:09 am |
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I'm afraid to say too much, but please don't use Brock air conditioning for your repairs/replacements.
I had a five month battle with them and finally won. It involved going to the Registrar of Contractors and the BBB. They fought me to the end, but I came out on top.
They are crooks!
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azsu
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 11:53 pm |
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| I chose the repair......nothing wrong with the dishwasher......just didn't want to take a chance on a fire
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goldrush
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 10:12 pm |
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Replaced my GE Profile dishwasher with latest model. Final cost after $300 rebate was $269.
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Nancy
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 05:08 pm |
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| What does the Trane unit cost, I've complained about my York system from day one and everytime they come out, they say there is nothing wrong - it is so loud, the whole neighboorhood can tell when my unit goes on.
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BB35
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 03:53 pm |
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Hey rational:
Yes, I should have complained about the York switched from 12 to 10 Seer. Who's fault was it? I suspect the Del Webb house designer, who was a real dip... She screwed up a few other things also... The construction super corrected most of them. Real nice guy...
Plus why spend money to get a replacement for a piece of junk with another piece of junk??? I had a friend that was an A/C enginner for the Govt and he warned me about York A/C units. So I planned to replace the York the first time it broke down. It lasted for 6 years. All of the York warranties are worthless... Cost more to fight than it is worth... Lots of good A/C units out there. Get at least three bids
As for as the Trane, yes it must be serviced yearly... No big deal $60 buck (first two years are free. I do mine twice a year) a pop for 10 years of parts and labor....
Plus Trane does free enginnering changes as they come out...
The Trane is a high tech unit with two compressors. One high power and one low power. All computer controlled... You can't imagine the difference! There are no "warm" spots in the house anymore... Plus the unit is very quite. Yeah, it is expensive, but you get what you pay for...
I have lived in Arizona for 40 years and it is best to have an A/C checked at least once a year. Saves, a lot of money... I have lived with Swampers (Yuk) and they must be serviced often..
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 01:34 pm |
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sometimes rational trust me Ignorance Is Bliss knows all about the board, as a matter of fact, the only time he posts is to defend the board.
Wonder why he didn't respond to your question about spending funds marketing Sun City Grand. If they are thinking about it, would it be considered maintaining the association assets or to provide programming for the residents.
Last edited on Mon May 21st, 2007 01:38 pm by cindisue_g
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 05:40 am |
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| Iggy" I'm curious--not looking for an arguement but you implied it would be illegal for the Bd. to act in an advocate role...what is the source of that info or is it just your belief? Why must the Bd strictly function to preserve association assets and not act as an advocate..I would rather see the board function as a mayor of a town--that is both concerned with the assets and operation of the town but also as the advocate for it's citizens...I see no reason why the bd could not do likewise other than that some of it's members seem to lack creativity and motivation.
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Ignorance Is Bliss
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 02:09 am |
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It is quite easy to explain how the Board got involved in the train whistle issue. IT DIDN'T. The Board was asked to become involved and it determined it was an issue affecting only a small percentage of the residents. The train whistle issue was handled by groups outside of the Association from Sun City Grand and Sun City West as well as businesses along the tracks.
The fire station issue was a matter that affected nearly 100% of the homeowners. The Board and Association did nothing more than protecting its property when the mayor stated she wanted to take part of the Cimarron parking lot as a location. It also asked the city to face reality and do what was clearly their responsibility - stop beating around the bush and pick a location. The city has the responsibility for fire and police, the Association does not.
The Association and the Board are responsible for the assets of the Association and not the assets of the individual homeowners. An earlier blog stated it correctly. If the Association starts sticking it's nose into areas of which it has no authority, where does it stop and who will cover the costs - both real and potentially legal for acting beyond its legal limits. Association dues cover the cost of maintaining the Association assets and providing programming for the homeowners, not solving homeowner problems.
Many people are disappointed at Pulte not stepping forward with a more acceptable solution but that remains an issue between the homeowner and Pulte. If homeowners want to go after Pulte, they should band together and develop a strategy. The Association may help by offering rooms for meetings but they would be out of their area of responsibility if they offered more.
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azsu
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 12:48 am |
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GE dishwasher recall
geappliances.com/recall
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Nancy
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Posted: Sun May 20th, 2007 11:47 pm |
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sometimes rational, I think you would be surprised how many people are having to have ceiling replaced (I waited 4 months before they could work on mine, because they were all booked up), not to mention other defects. If the board is going to get involved in the defective windows, then you can bet that each and every home owner is going to go to Chat With The Board or Board Meetings and ask them why they will not assist them; because lets face it one person's problem is just as important to them as the windows are to another. I understand why the board got involved in the fire house, it is an asset to the community speaking from a safety point of view. Railroad noise, I'm not so sure I understand why.
Last edited on Mon May 21st, 2007 01:24 am by Nancy
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Sun May 20th, 2007 05:32 am |
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BB35 wrote: When my York A/C quit a while back, I was told that York had installed a defective third party heat exchanger (cheap) and it would corrode and leak after about 6 years. The guy said he had replaced several around SCG (about $1000). I knew York was a very low rated A/C unit so I had the York system replaced with a 19 SEER Trane. What a difference! Power bill went down and comfort level went up.. Another nice feature about the Trane is it has electronic ignition on gas furnace and this saves gas.
The Trane contractor discovered that the York was installed incorrectly. Plus I paid extra for a 12 SEER York and discovered it was a 10 SEER. I live in Blue Sky and this could have been the fault of the idiot designer we had in '98.
The Trane contractor mentioned that the outside York compressors in phase four where catching fire and Pulte was slowly replacing them. I don't know if this is true but not surprised....
Point is, it is a waste of money to repair a York. About anything is better than York..
BB--If you still have documentation at you paid for a 12 SEER and received a 10, I suggest you file a complaint with the AAG's office as that constitutes consumer fraud . I didn't hear the fire story regarding York' in phase 4 but I heard from a guy in the gym, who heard from a guy playing golf, who heard from a guy in the hottub that York motors were being recalled. I contacted Brock, who was the AC contractor and they confirmed that story and set up a motor replacement call 5 months down the road. Two weeks before that date they called me up and said that the mfg had send them a list of serial numbers and mine was not among those recalled.
The thing a lot of people don't understand is that their York compressors are warrented for 10 years and the rest of the unit is for five..labor not included in either case...in addition, the state has a (I think 8 yr) major system warrenty applicable to new homes...a lot of of think that beyond the 2 or 1 year Del Webb or Pulte new warrently, we're stuck.
Just one more thing..about your Trane..if you purchased an extended warrenty, it requires that you have it serviced (possibly by the selling dealer) annually or the warrenty is null and void..this happened to someone I spoke with..the mfg has a right to impose this kind of covenent (car mgfers all required proof of oil changes) but I venture to guess it's not widely known.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Sun May 20th, 2007 05:12 am |
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Nancy--I guess I'm just not making myself clear to you..I think it IS the duty of the Bd. to intercede and advocate for residents when a large number of them share an issue of concern. The Bd. got involved with the RR quiet zone, Nancy, they got involved and advocated for a fire house, Nancy...the issue is not about one guy with a crack in his ceiling, it's about hundreds of houses with thousands of defective windows. I DO understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with you. I think if they are more concerned about assisting realtors market SCG for those who have their houses for sale than they are about righting wrongs for those of us who are not moving, their priorities are misplaced.....and you made a reference to a Bd member who was, in your view, particualrly rude to you...who was that and what was the issue? The purpose of a forum is to share info.
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cjaz2002
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Posted: Sat May 19th, 2007 06:14 pm |
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I have been watching and hearing about all the problems SSG residents are having with there homes. I moved to the valley five years ago and almost bought a Windsor model.
Then we visited Arizona Traditions and bought here. Glad we did. Great gated community and the homes are well built. I have had some minor problems and Horton took care of the issues. Even had a issue with a out of warrenty item. They took care of it right away at no charge.
Hope you people can get Polte to step up and take care of your issues. You folks do not need to have problems like this.
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BB35
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Posted: Sat May 19th, 2007 03:00 pm |
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When my York A/C quit a while back, I was told that York had installed a defective third party heat exchanger (cheap) and it would corrode and leak after about 6 years. The guy said he had replaced several around SCG (about $1000). I knew York was a very low rated A/C unit so I had the York system replaced with a 19 SEER Trane. What a difference! Power bill went down and comfort level went up.. Another nice feature about the Trane is it has electronic ignition on gas furnace and this saves gas.
The Trane contractor discovered that the York was installed incorrectly. Plus I paid extra for a 12 SEER York and discovered it was a 10 SEER. I live in Blue Sky and this could have been the fault of the idiot designer we had in '98.
The Trane contractor mentioned that the outside York compressors in phase four where catching fire and Pulte was slowly replacing them. I don't know if this is true but not surprised....
Point is, it is a waste of money to repair a York. About anything is better than York..
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Nancy
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Posted: Sat May 19th, 2007 01:45 pm |
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I don't think I can say it any plainer: I believe that the homeowners that have a problem should ban together and go to Pulte and any other avenue that they feel will get the problem fixed.
It is a homeowners responsibility to try to rectify this with the builder; that is what I have done with my problems. If the board were to get involved in every problem that the homeowners have with regard to construction problems, the board positions would have to turn into full time paid positions. Think about it, if the board gets involved in this problem, then shouldn't they get involved in all of those that are having to replace their ceilings, those with cracks, those with grading problems, those that with paint problems, those with door problems, etc. (the list goes on and on). If you feel so strongly, then why don't you start up a group that would help people with Pulte/construction problems, you don't have to be on the board to do it.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Sat May 19th, 2007 04:28 am |
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Nancy wrote: I believe you misunderstood what I said. No one said that you said it was okay for Pulte not to do anything. I personally think that they should, since the windows are defective, with many of the houses less than 3 years old. What I said was "Put your heads together, think about what you could do to have someone listen, someone who is trying to sell other communities in the valley. "
What do you suggest? Other places have homeowners unions...I think it's too conservative here for that....and, I was merely reporting what was said at the CAM jam...I wrote in my post that I have no claim at this point since my windows are holding up.
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goldrush
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 11:31 pm |
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http://www.atriumwindows.com
Last edited on Fri May 18th, 2007 11:31 pm by goldrush
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Nancy
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 10:57 pm |
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I believe you misunderstood what I said. No one said that you said it was okay for Pulte not to do anything. I personally think that they should, since the windows are defective, with many of the houses less than 3 years old. What I said was "Put your heads together, think about what you could do to have someone listen, someone who is trying to sell other communities in the valley. "
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 09:42 pm |
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Nancy wrote: sometimes rational, I disagree with you with regard to Pulte not doing something because the warranty is up. Put your heads together, think about what you could do to have someone listen, someone who is trying to sell other communities in the valley.
As far as the board is concerned, I'm not really up on them anymore. I can't attend meetings, because I choose work and have pretty much stopped watching Channel 22 (since they were not showing all the meetings). With regard to arrogance, I must admit I sent a board member an email asking why a certain meeting was not shown, and got back this rude and disrespectful email that was, as far as I was concerned, way out of line; that was enough for me.
FROM SOMETIMES RATIONAL
Well, I'm not saying it's OK for Pulte not doing anything, I am saying they have decided not to do anything...probably because they are not the mfg of the windows and because the new home owners wall to wall warrentys have expired. Unfortunately, this is not a consumer friendly state and, to my knowledge, there is no implied warrenty statute here so the mfg is free to determine the length of the warrenty they provide. I found Pulte to be non-responsive post Del Webb buy-out and several times I contacted BBB and, surprisingly, got Pulte to pay out or make the repairs.....my windows are still in tact so I have no claim, but I am clearly in the minority in my neighborhood.....one more thing of interest: a number of people bought Low E windows after the date on which the city made them mandatory...Pulte's Jennifer in Cust Svs told me Pulte was going to review all their files on affected homes and refund the extra cost of those windows to appropriate homebuyers..I do not remember the effective date of the ordinance but one can check with the city....my Low-E's were a part of a package v. a separate line item.
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goldrush
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 08:34 pm |
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Safety Recall/GE Dishwashers manufactured September 1997 - December 2001.
Rebates toward purchase of new dishwasher up to $300.
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Nancy
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 02:05 pm |
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sometimes rational, I disagree with you with regard to Pulte not doing something because the warranty is up. Put your heads together, think about what you could do to have someone listen, someone who is trying to sell other communities in the valley.
As far as the board is concerned, I'm not really up on them anymore. I can't attend meetings, because I choose work and have pretty much stopped watching Channel 22 (since they were not showing all the meetings). With regard to arrogance, I must admit I sent a board member an email asking why a certain meeting was not shown, and got back this rude and disrespectful email that was, as far as I was concerned, way out of line; that was enough for me.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 05:32 am |
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Hi, Nancy: The Bd. agrees with you essentially...they suggested that the residents affected could contact the AZ ROC to complain..the resident who brought it up was of the opinion that since so many of us shared the same problem, the Bd. could act as an advocate for residents when an issue concerns a number of us ..they have when it came to the train noise, the firestation, etc....Personally, I would like to see a left wing, kick-ass, choke 'em by the neck activist on the Bd v. those just concerned with the appearance of the community and maintaining the status quo. Anyway, complaints to Pulte have done nothing since the warrenty period is past. The window mfg is charging ppl $55 to come inspect their faulty windows and labor to install new ones.
I have not been as active as i should have been but I think I know a stonewalling when I see one. Is the Bd not required to adhere to an ethics policy? I was put off by their general aloofness which bordered on contemp in some cases..such did most of the speaking and he was quite arrogant and condesending, in my opinion.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 11:51 pm |
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| Mike43, none of the SCG board members are on the city council and it is entirely different; the SCG board members are all volunteers.
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Nancy
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Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 09:59 pm |
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With regard to your first issue – I think you should try to get the homeowners that have the problem involved and all write a letter to Pulte. Since this does not seem to be a board issue, it is a builder issue, I really don’t understand why the board would get involved. From what I have heard, Anthem is having problems and a group has gotten together to go after the builder to rectify the problems.
I feel that our yearly assessment should be spent on our community; to keep our community in tiptop shape, to enhance the lives of the residents, etc. I do not feel that our yearly assessment should be spent on advertising, to sell a few resident’s houses, I feel that that should be done by the real estate agents that have houses for sale in the development. To advertise in the area would be a complete waste of time, since the community is pretty much known in the valley and to advertising in a magazine like “Where To Retire” would be very pricey, as would advertisements in the Los Angeles area, Midwest or Eastern areas.
What can we do to market to people, without it costing a lot of money; we can make sure when someone googles “active adult communities” or “55 and older active adult communities” or “45 and older active adult communities” that Sun City Grand’s website comes up and we have an extensive “Why should I live in Sun City Grand” within our website or a completely different one dedicated to this. SCG should be marketing us to the newspapers, radio stations, etc., in the area; you never know when a news story will be picked up nationally. “Where To Retire” magazine does articles on retirement communities, we should be in contact with them trying to get articles about Sun City Grand in the magazine. Someone should be in contact with the LA Times, New York Times, Chicago Tribune, San Francisco Chronicle and other highly visible newspapers and keep in contact with them and find out when they do articles on retirement and try to get a little of the action. There are a lot of things, in my opinion, that can be done to market Sun City Grand without spending a lot of money and please understand I am in no way saying that this is not being done; it is just that I personally have not seen it.
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Mike43
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Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 09:13 pm |
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| Are any of the board members also members of the Surprise City Council? Seems like the same level of ethics.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 08:18 pm |
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Since we don't have a message bd., on grandinfo, I thought it was time..I'll kick things off with two subject. At the Cam Jam last night, a resident appropriately introduced the subject of defective Atrium windows in the Phase 4 area. He pointed out that Atrium charges us to come out to inspect them and then charges us for labor to install a replacement. He indicated that this is a wide-spead problem and affects hundreds of homes here and asked the Bd. to get involved since it affects so many of us. Only one member of the Bd acknowledged there is a problem and he himself is affected...it's hard for me to believe they have no knowledge of this as a Bd. since Neighborhood Reps have alerted their residents. Why is there no activism on this Bd concerning resident issues which are not golf related or agenda driven?
The other issue I wanted to mention was the article that appeared in local papers yesterday that the BD is allocating funds to 'market' SCG. Several residents spoke out again this indicating that marketing of an area is the job of real estate agents. Why should residents not moving out be asked to pay for 'marketing' the community so that residents who are selling can get more for their homes? The Bd flatly denied that any funds have been allocated for this purpose...one Bd member later mentioned that the Bd is meeting this Friday with realtors to discuss this issue.
Are any Bd members or spouses involved in real estate or could they in any way profit personally from increased sales at SCG? Interesting questions...and since this marketing drive stemmed from the lowering of the age for residents to 45, why did the board not inform us at the time of the election of their plan to use our funds to market the community.
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