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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 05:40 pm |
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razenkn wrote:
Now why would I do that, just so you can only present your opinion? I don't know raz, do you go and put your 2 cents worth on threads concerning Dysart issues? I don't due to the fact I have no reason to. You said you have no interest here. I don't think that is the gist of the blogosphere, but you can hope. I have just as much right here to comment on those of you who are beating your heads against a brick wall in complaining about a very good business in Surprise, i.e., large employer and lucrative tax revenue you never answered a previous response to a question about what do you prefer since you previously were the champion for mom&pop type businesses that Walmart seems to put out of business, so what is it? for what I view as trumped up falsehoods (thank you dinosaur Union folk) against this great business. These people are marketing geniuses, more companies should pay attention. Keep the prices low and give the people what they want. As you can see there's a lot of us who don't want them nationwide.
It is a done deal, they are building no matter what you say or do so I see no choice oh, but we do have a choice -- another nice thing about America! but to support them just like we will support the Target next to them or any other business going in there. I think it is wrong to single them out. Maybe I misspoke, that seems to be my dog. Woof!   Oh, I get it, you are the dog, right?
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razenkn
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 05:29 pm |
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Now why would I do that, just so you can only present your opinion? I don't think that is the gist of the blogosphere, but you can hope. I have just as much right here to comment on those of you who are beating your heads against a brick wall in complaining about a very good business in Surprise, i.e., large employer and lucrative tax revenue for what I view as trumped up falsehoods (thank you dinosaur Union folk) against this great business. These people are marketing geniuses, more companies should pay attention. Keep the prices low and give the people what they want.
It is a done deal, they are building no matter what you say or do so I see no choice but to support them just like we will support the Target next to them or any other business going in there. I think it is wrong to single them out. Maybe I misspoke, that seems to be my dog. Woof!
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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raz, you claim you "don't have a dog in this fight" so why do you persist here? Go on to the other threads where you do want to make a statement.
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razenkn
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 04:38 pm |
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You really take things to heart Mama, it was just a tease, get over it. I know in my heart of hearts you don't love councilman Williams, you are just eating a little humble pie because you need his help and I was razzing you about it. Okay. Better now?
No, I wasn't there but I wish I knew who you thought I was, that could be funny. I ask the questions because I don't really have a dog in this fight. I could care less if Wal Mart builds there or not. I see no difference in just having a Target or a Target and Wal Mart. AND please spare me all the inequities of big bad Wal Mart because we don't' agree with that and I don't want to keep rehashing it.
Since you made the claim you were "lied to" by the developer, I just wondered if they were able to explain that lie. That's a legitimate question.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 04:21 pm |
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razenkn wrote:
No, just thought at one time you "hated" him and the opposite is "love" so that is where I was going with that, just a little tongue in cheek, sorry if I confused you on that. I'm not a black and white person. I'm a person who believes there is grey in pretty much everything. Why would I "hate" or "love" councilman Williams?
So did the developers feel they had lied to you? Oh yeah, like they'd come out and say they lied? Come on raz, get a grip! Or did they have a good explanation for the change in plans? Does a developer EVER have a good explanation for his change in plans? I think not. They just sneakily slide it by and then if it is noticed at some point, they stand there and say we (citizens) approved it. Been there, done that. I really wished I could have attended. I have the feeling you did. I'm just curious if they gave you something to hope for or if it was all a downer.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 05:41 am |
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razenkn wrote:
No, just thought at one time you "hated" him and the opposite is "love" so that is where I was going with that, just a little tongue in cheek, sorry if I confused you on that.
So did the developers feel they had lied to you? Or did they have a good explanation for the change in plans? I really wished I could have attended. I'm just curious if they gave you something to hope for or if it was all a downer.
Wrong again...the opposite of 'hate' is indifference. Love is somewhere inbetween.
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Reactr
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 03:58 am |
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I hope Haystack, Barney & the gang have watched Councilman Williams EXCEED normal expections of a councilor in office for a little over 4 months.
Voted to create a meaningful ethics policy applicable to council.
Co-sponsored establishment of a committee to examine the possibility of assistance for distressed homeowners.
Has established defined office hours and actually responds to phone calls and e-mails.
Is accessible 2 Saturdays per month at published locations.
IN just the last couple of weeks held public forums related to Surprise Farms and a possible third Wal Mart.
All with no car allowance of $480/month , no whining for a salary increase or a better pension. A REAL PUBLIC SERVANT!
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deuce
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 01:32 am |
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spincycle wrote: razenkn wrote: So did the developers feel they had lied to you? Or did they have a good explanation for the change in plans? I really wished I could have attended. I'm just curious if they gave you something to hope for or if it was all a downer.
Basically it was all smoke and mirrors. Westcor is promising a whole lot and I don't think they are ever going to deliver. They are telling people there will be a Macy's and/or Dillards here in Surprise.?. That probably won't happen for a long, long time, if ever. To tell you the truth, I could only listen to so much of their crap. I had more fun visiting with folks I haven't seen in a while.
I would like to thank John Williams for putting the meeting together. It was also nice to see other council members in attendance.
Sometimes referred to as "a dog and pony show". Usually put together to placate special interest groups and allow the politicians to show they're sensitive to the opinions of voters. Think pandering. But, the politicians have to walk a fine line . . . it's all about tax revenue, folks.
Last edited on Mon May 12th, 2008 01:35 am by deuce
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spincycle
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Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 11:26 pm |
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razenkn wrote: So did the developers feel they had lied to you? Or did they have a good explanation for the change in plans? I really wished I could have attended. I'm just curious if they gave you something to hope for or if it was all a downer.
Basically it was all smoke and mirrors. Westcor is promising a whole lot and I don't think they are ever going to deliver. They are telling people there will be a Macy's and/or Dillards here in Surprise.?. That probably won't happen for a long, long time, if ever. To tell you the truth, I could only listen to so much of their crap. I had more fun visiting with folks I haven't seen in a while.
I would like to thank John Williams for putting the meeting together. It was also nice to see other council members in attendance.
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razenkn
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Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 10:07 pm |
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No, just thought at one time you "hated" him and the opposite is "love" so that is where I was going with that, just a little tongue in cheek, sorry if I confused you on that.
So did the developers feel they had lied to you? Or did they have a good explanation for the change in plans? I really wished I could have attended. I'm just curious if they gave you something to hope for or if it was all a downer.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 09:31 pm |
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razenkn wrote:
Shame on you Mama, there was nothing "love as in love" about my question. "Sheesh" is right. I love Brats with sauerkraut and onions and lots of mustard. What an odd response that was. Actually raz, I was going to say the same thing to you -- what an odd question. You must use "love" loosely. OK, gotcha.  However, you have answered my question, you have forgiven "young John" "the boy" for winning over Doc's seat and now that he has your attention you are good to go with him? Glad to hear that. Once again, there is no forgiving to do. You do have a unique way of viewing situations, OK, I digress. As far as I can see, John is seeing to certain matters in his district and I'm glad to see that. Do I know everything he does or does not do? No, I don't follow it that closely. However, Doc was always there to see to matters in his district also. I'm also aware he (Doc) put himself out there to even help people not in his district by spreading the word about car washes, charity events, etc. for families who had met with tragedy in one way or another, be it devastating illness, death, and I'm sure other reasons. Doc has a very good heart.
What did the developers say to you to change your mind? Couldn't make the meeting. The developers said nothing to change my mind -- I still am protesting against Walmart as I hope the entire crowd that was there still is; we aren't done yet as we don't like being lied to. There were some pretty upset people in attendance and I'd love it if they could keep their passion and see this through. You weren't there? -- awww, imagine, I was ready to grab an arm and say let's go have our coffee.
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razenkn
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Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 04:34 am |
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Shame on you Mama, there was nothing "love as in love" about my question. "Sheesh" is right. I love Brats with sauerkraut and onions and lots of mustard. What an odd response that was. However, you have answered my question, you have forgiven "young John" "the boy" for winning over Doc's seat and now that he has your attention you are good to go with him? Glad to hear that.
What did the developers say to you to change your mind? Couldn't make the meeting.
Last edited on Sun May 11th, 2008 04:35 am by razenkn
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 03:55 am |
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razenkn wrote:
Okay, but does this mean you love John Williams now because you did have a few negative things to say about him. I could probably go back and check them out but I don't really have the patience for that, ok maybe one. He's gone to a lot of trouble to help you out, so maybe you should make the effort to say something nice about him, eh???
Memory lane....Mama wrote....
And God help Surprise if Williams gets in. He might be a fine young man in many people's eyes, but sitting there in that audience last night, I was not the least impressed with what he can offer this city at this point in time. He needs another four years to learn a few things and how the system works. He may not be in politics or on a council, but good Lord, he should have been able to answer that first question! JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION.
Since you are using my blue, I'll go red. First off, what is it with you and this "love" thing raz? Sheesh, I've got a husband! Mr. Williams is a very personable young man and very easy to speak with. And he is learning as we all (hopefully) do as time goes on and he is trying to help his district with a situation they do not like and basically feel they were lied to about what was really going in by the developer. I do believe that is what a councilman is for, yes? to represent his/their district? And if I remember correctly, he couldn't answer the first question at that time. So no, I did not believe him to be ready.
Now, since we're on the Walmart thread, had a very good meeting today folks! I was very glad to see the turn-out and I sincerely hope some people who were ill-informed when arriving, were able to become educated while there. There was actually a couple who did not know about the new Walmart already in existence at Dysart and Waddell -- I hope they went and checked. Anyhow, to the folks who set this up AND councilman Williams for allowing us to use his Saturday morning time and Empire Bagels for their location, a big THANK YOU! Let's keep this going folks!
Last edited on Sun May 11th, 2008 03:58 am by Mamazoyd
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razenkn
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 04:08 am |
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Okay, but does this mean you love John Williams now because you did have a few negative things to say about him. I could probably go back and check them out but I don't really have the patience for that, ok maybe one. He's gone to a lot of trouble to help you out, so maybe you should make the effort to say something nice about him, eh???
Memory lane....Mama wrote....
And God help Surprise if Williams gets in. He might be a fine young man in many people's eyes, but sitting there in that audience last night, I was not the least impressed with what he can offer this city at this point in time. He needs another four years to learn a few things and how the system works. He may not be in politics or on a council, but good Lord, he should have been able to answer that first question! JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION.
Last edited on Sat May 10th, 2008 04:57 am by razenkn
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 04:04 am |
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razenkn wrote:
Hey Mama, I'm going to that meeting, maybe we can share a bagel and a cup of coffee just like old friends! So does this mean you love??? John Williams now? How the heck did that happen? Wasn't it just a short few months ago you were ready to take to the streets over how inexperienced and no time to devote to his job? Nobody but Doc could do this job, it was such a huge job that someone needed to devote full time to it.....This is quite a turn around, very open minded of you I might add.
Way to go Ma...ma!!!
No raz, that wasn't me ready to take to the streets even though I was for Doc, although I do know some people who were putting on their walking shoes. I do remember however you seemed to think that many voices on here were the same person. Sorry, I was and still am me and only me. Hey, you were the one pointing out that there were a lot more people than we imagined reading these. Well, guess that also went for writers, eh? Actually, I'd like to have my own cup of coffee, but perhaps we can share a table.
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razenkn
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 03:51 am |
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Hey Mama, I'm going to that meeting, maybe we can share a bagel and a cup of coffee just like old friends! So does this mean you love John Williams now? How the heck did that happen? Wasn't it just a short few months ago you were ready to take to the streets over how inexperienced and no time to devote to his job? Nobody but Doc could do this job, it was such a huge job that someone needed to devote full time to it.....This is quite a turn around, very open minded of you I might add.
Way to go Ma...ma!!!
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 03:46 am |
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Gotta tell ya, I had no idea it was the Libs! You're pretty cool.
NOW, to get back to Walmartel (or Wally Mart):
http://www.azcentral.com/community/peoria/articles/2008/05/09/20080509gl-peowalmart0509inside.html
They really think "going green" as the smaller article in today's Surprise Republic includes, is going to make all of us woop and hollar? Maybe this will change some people's minds. I wish I had the exact article from today as it's different from above. They ought to be pleading their heart out at tomorrow's meeting on the wonders of the newest and latest and greatest stores.
We are supposed to be impressed by the "gourmet sushi at the deli along with the wide aisles and natural light filtering down from skylights." And oh my! I can't forget "the exterior architecture with a facade of a variety of elevations, materials and design details and sweeping roof lines in a modern prairie style." Plus their "LED lights operate 70% more efficiently than fluorescent lighting and freezer cases and non-sales areas have lights that shut off when no one is present." Okey Dokey, they are really trying to sell this aren't they?
I think tomorrow's meeting will be interesting! 9:00 am, Empire Bagels, SW corner Bell and Reems. Reps from Westcor and Walmart to be there.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 03:24 am |
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Mamazoyd wrote: sometimes rational wrote: GEM127 wrote: First off, how did this thread find it's way to smoking and abortion?
Second, Maybe you should take a look out of the window once in a while. Nature aborts births all the time, but we don't question that. Are we not a part of nature?
I think it was when BJ started to complain that we liberals were denying him the right to smoke in certain places...and he sorta overlooked the right of non-smokers not to inhale what's coming out of his mouth....he just doesn't get the public good concept at all..oh, well.
You're right there SR. And I'm not even a Liberal! If it was due to Liberals that this ban was passed, I THANK YOU! Sometimes I think maybe you guys are so bad!
Ooops, AREN'T so bad!
In other states, dems have passed laws requiring motor cycles helmets to be worn; requiring insurance companies to pay customers quickly or face big fines...lotsa cool, consumer oriented thinking...individual rights might come second for the greater good..another, 'oh, well'.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 01:43 am |
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sometimes rational wrote: GEM127 wrote: First off, how did this thread find it's way to smoking and abortion?
Second, Maybe you should take a look out of the window once in a while. Nature aborts births all the time, but we don't question that. Are we not a part of nature?
I think it was when BJ started to complain that we liberals were denying him the right to smoke in certain places...and he sorta overlooked the right of non-smokers not to inhale what's coming out of his mouth....he just doesn't get the public good concept at all..oh, well.
You're right there SR. And I'm not even a Liberal! If it was due to Liberals that this ban was passed, I THANK YOU! Sometimes I think maybe you guys are so bad!
Ooops, AREN'T so bad!
Last edited on Sat May 10th, 2008 01:45 am by Mamazoyd
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 10:00 pm |
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GEM127 wrote: First off, how did this thread find it's way to smoking and abortion?
Second, Maybe you should take a look out of the window once in a while. Nature aborts births all the time, but we don't question that. Are we not a part of nature?
I think it was when BJ started to complain that we liberals were denying him the right to smoke in certain places...and he sorta overlooked the right of non-smokers not to inhale what's coming out of his mouth....he just doesn't get the public good concept at all..oh, well.
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blackjack
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 03:29 pm |
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all I can say is, see what I mean? some peoples reasoning abilities are so screwed up they have lost the ability to make sense of anything.
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GEM127
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:55 pm |
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First off, how did this thread find it's way to smoking and abortion?
Second, Maybe you should take a look out of the window once in a while. Nature aborts births all the time, but we don't question that. Are we not a part of nature?
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 05:11 am |
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blackjack wrote: SR:
Well, let me put it another way. Your response makes little sense. How does smoking in public when it's been documented that second hand smoke is a health hazard, compare to allowing gays and lesbians to have their own community?? How is making abortion illegal benefit moms who don't believe their fetus is a human life, and wish to abort their pregnancy. How is totally free enterprise, which includes all sorts of opportunites, if there were not the regulations in place due to us liberals, a good thing if it destroys family owned business, results in unfair trade practices, violates of all sorts of employment laws, that's good? ..totally free enterprise would allow business to hire whomever they want to hire..including illegal immigrants..it would allow business to pay them as lttile as they want...and work under sweatshop conditions and not fund pesion plans, while rewarding the CEO's with multi million salaries and benefits....you want totally free, unregulated business? Vote Republican.
blackjack:
See what I mean about screwed up priorities? It's ok to murder a baby but pull out all the stops if someone should breathe someone else's second hand smoke. It's really a matter of opinion on what effect, if any, second hand smoke may have on someone but I'm pretty sure most people (and notice I say most) would agree that there is no doubt that an aborted baby is only one thing, dead. And yes, I don't believe that a woman has the right to make the decision of whether or not an unborn baby is really a baby. I would like you to tell me who gave them that right. The law..if something is not illegal, than it is legal.
How does abortion benefit an unborn child SR? Is your only concern for the mother who may be inconvenienced? Maybe you agree with obama that a child should be considered a punishment and therefore the "mother to be" (and I use that term loosely) should have the right to abort that child.
What the narrow-minded, holier than thou, overlook is that many of us don't believe a fetus is a child...sorry if that doesn't jive with your religious beliefs..but, your religion might not have it exactly right, and that's why there are other religions--or no religions...so, since we don't believe abortion is murder, otherwise, i guess it would be illegal, wouldn't it? ...and since there is ample evidence concerning the dangers of smoking (to pregnant women, too) this is a non-senseical position you're taking. Let me ask ya tho...how does a pregnant woman inhaling second hand smoke benefit the fetus?...here you have the opportunity to make medical history BJ...go for it..
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blackjack
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 11:32 pm |
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SR:
Well, let me put it another way. Your response makes little sense. How does smoking in public when it's been documented that second hand smoke is a health hazard, compare to allowing gays and lesbians to have their own community?? How is making abortion illegal benefit moms who don't believe their fetus is a human life, and wish to abort their pregnancy. How is totally free enterprise, which includes all sorts of opportunites, if there were not the regulations in place due to us liberals, a good thing if it destroys family owned business, results in unfair trade practices, violates of all sorts of employment laws, that's good? ..totally free enterprise would allow business to hire whomever they want to hire..including illegal immigrants..it would allow business to pay them as lttile as they want...and work under sweatshop conditions and not fund pesion plans, while rewarding the CEO's with multi million salaries and benefits....you want totally free, unregulated business? Vote Republican.
blackjack:
See what I mean about screwed up priorities? It's ok to murder a baby but pull out all the stops if someone should breathe someone else's second hand smoke. It's really a matter of opinion on what effect, if any, second hand smoke may have on someone but I'm pretty sure most people (and notice I say most) would agree that there is no doubt that an aborted baby is only one thing, dead. And yes, I don't believe that a woman has the right to make the decision of whether or not an unborn baby is really a baby. I would like you to tell me who gave them that right.
How does abortion benefit an unborn child SR? Is your only concern for the mother who may be inconvenienced? Maybe you agree with obama that a child should be considered a punishment and therefore the "mother to be" (and I use that term loosely) should have the right to abort that child.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 10:55 pm |
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jwillas wrote: blackjack wrote: Well let me put it another way. Were it not for the liberal viewpoint abortion would still be illegal. Were it not for liberal activists, smoking in public places would still be allowed. Whether you find either appealing or not isn't the point. The point is liberals get all bent out of shape if someone should speak out against a "community geared strictly toward gays" because liberals believe everyone should be allowed to do their own thing but heaven help us if someone should light a cigarette within their view. The priorities of liberals are so screwed up they are beyond trying to reason with.
I agree with you 100% black. In my opinion, more often than not, the word 'liberal' is spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.
Sorry, JW, but weren't you the person outraged at the ER care you received? So you want less regulation, or no regulation of hospitals? No recourse for patients you did not receive adequate treatment? Then the next time you have a 'horror' story you want to share about a hospital, DON"T COMPLAIN...if you're not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 10:51 pm |
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blackjack wrote: Well let me put it another way. Were it not for the liberal viewpoint abortion would still be illegal. Were it not for liberal activists, smoking in public places would still be allowed. Whether you find either appealing or not isn't the point. The point is liberals get all bent out of shape if someone should speak out against a "community geared strictly toward gays" because liberals believe everyone should be allowed to do their own thing but heaven help us if someone should light a cigarette within their view. The priorities of liberals are so screwed up they are beyond trying to reason with.
Well, let me put it another way. Your response makes little sense. How does smoking in public when it's been documented that second hand smoke is a health hazard, compare to allowing gays and lesbians to have their own community?? How is making abortion illegal benefit moms who don't believe their fetus is a human life, and wish to abort their pregnancy. How is totally free enterprise, which includes all sorts of opportunites, if there were not the regulations in place due to us liberals, a good thing if it destroys family owned business, results in unfair trade practices, violates of all sorts of employment laws, that's good? ..totally free enterprise would allow business to hire whomever they want to hire..including illegal immigrants..it would allow business to pay them as lttile as they want...and work under sweatshop conditions and not fund pesion plans, while rewarding the CEO's with multi million salaries and benefits....you want totally free, unregulated business? Vote Republican.
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jwillas
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 08:44 pm |
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blackjack wrote: Well let me put it another way. Were it not for the liberal viewpoint abortion would still be illegal. Were it not for liberal activists, smoking in public places would still be allowed. Whether you find either appealing or not isn't the point. The point is liberals get all bent out of shape if someone should speak out against a "community geared strictly toward gays" because liberals believe everyone should be allowed to do their own thing but heaven help us if someone should light a cigarette within their view. The priorities of liberals are so screwed up they are beyond trying to reason with.
I agree with you 100% black. In my opinion, more often than not, the word 'liberal' is spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 08:27 pm |
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blackjack wrote: Well let me put it another way. Were it not for the liberal viewpoint abortion would still be illegal. Were it not for liberal activists, smoking in public places would still be allowed. Whether you find either appealing or not isn't the point. The point is liberals get all bent out of shape if someone should speak out against a "community geared strictly toward gays" because liberals believe everyone should be allowed to do their own thing but heaven help us if someone should light a cigarette within their view. The priorities of liberals are so screwed up they are beyond trying to reason with.
I'm not a liberal activist but I'm damn glad smoking is not allowed in most public places anymore. Makes it much more pleasurable on the lungs. Eh, aside from that particular point, this is the problem with both liberals and conservatives. Each side gets all bent out of shape with what the other is thinking and attempting to do. Which is why I stay moderate. I believe each side has its' good and bad points. I like to think about what I'm doing and believing and I don't want someone instructing me on how I should think or tell me my thought process is wrong. Then you're taking away part of my freedom.
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blackjack
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 08:00 pm |
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Well let me put it another way. Were it not for the liberal viewpoint abortion would still be illegal. Were it not for liberal activists, smoking in public places would still be allowed. Whether you find either appealing or not isn't the point. The point is liberals get all bent out of shape if someone should speak out against a "community geared strictly toward gays" because liberals believe everyone should be allowed to do their own thing but heaven help us if someone should light a cigarette within their view. The priorities of liberals are so screwed up they are beyond trying to reason with.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 07:32 pm |
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blackjack wrote: Mamazoyd wrote: blackjack wrote: I love the liberal viewpoint that everyone should be free to do as they please unless, of course, it happens to be something they don't agree with. So bj, this is in contrast to what viewpoint on the conservative side in your opinion?
Well mama, let me give you a couple of examples. The "right" of a woman to abort her child vs. the right of a walmart to open in an area you may not approve of. The "right" of pornography to be spewed all over the internet vs. the right of someone to light up a cigarette in a public place.
I would be willing to offer more examples if you like but let's try those for starters.
Interesting. Abortions (or a woman's right to choose) and Walmarts are both currently legal but neither one is appealing. The jurisdiction on porn on the internet (aside from kiddie porn) and smoking in public places due to bans (again both not appealing) are hazy areas according to law.
I guess I'm just not quite understanding what you're trying to say with these examples. Anyone can view these in any way and either side can feel you should be free to do as you like unless it's something you object to.
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blackjack
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 07:05 pm |
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Mamazoyd wrote: blackjack wrote: I love the liberal viewpoint that everyone should be free to do as they please unless, of course, it happens to be something they don't agree with. So bj, this is in contrast to what viewpoint on the conservative side in your opinion?
Well mama, let me give you a couple of examples. The "right" of a woman to abort her child vs. the right of a walmart to open in an area you may not approve of. The "right" of pornography to be spewed all over the internet vs. the right of someone to light up a cigarette in a public place.
I would be willing to offer more examples if you like but let's try those for starters.
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jwillas
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:48 pm |
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blackjack wrote: I love the liberal viewpoint that everyone should be free to do as they please unless, of course, it happens to be something they don't agree with.
'Free Enterprise' is a misnomer because nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is 'free'. One of the few, if not the ONLY rule in life without an exception to prove it because there IS no exception.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:46 pm |
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blackjack wrote: I love the liberal viewpoint that everyone should be free to do as they please unless, of course, it happens to be something they don't agree with. So bj, this is in contrast to what viewpoint on the conservative side in your opinion?
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blackjack
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:40 pm |
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| I love the liberal viewpoint that everyone should be free to do as they please unless, of course, it happens to be something they don't agree with.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:30 pm |
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sometimes rational wrote: MrsF wrote: LOL, okay, so I misspoke. TI'm even getting a chuckle out of it. They can, of course, coexist, but I don't think that you can support free enterprise in its purest form and then be opposed to another business and want it shut down because it doesn't jive with your own morals. That's what I was trying to say. I meant to basically say that Raz's belief system is basically mutually exclusive in its nature.
Protesters in the end want the city to "do something", which means government involvement, which doesn't jive with true free enterprise.
I agree with you completely. I think Mama and I probably then do not support free enterprise in the purest form..purest form means, to me, without regulation and without regard for the public good...so if we have companies that want to come to Surprise and pollute our already filthy air, i don't want them. If it's sex stores, i don't want them either....and if it's a store which exploits it's workers and strives to destroy smaller based family stores, I surely don't want them...free enterprise has it's public costs....it's definately not free.
SR, I concur
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jwillas
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 05:19 am |
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| Oops, that reply was to the wrong topic. Sorry.
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jwillas
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 05:18 am |
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The sales tax rate in Arizona is 5.6%. Then Maricopa County adds an additional .7%. Each additional sales tax per city is as follows:
Apache Junction: 2.2%
Avondale: 2.5%
Buckeye: 2.0%
Carefree: 3.0%
Cave Creek: 2.5%
Chandler: 1.5%
El Mirage: 3.0%
Fountain Hills: 2.6%
Gila Bend: 3.0%
Gilbert: 1.5%
Glendale: 2.2%
Goodyear: 2.0%
Guadalupe: 3.0%
Litchfield Park: 2.0%
Maricopa: 2.0%
Mesa: 1.75%
Paradise Valley: 1.65%
Peoria: 1.8%
Phoenix: 2.0%
Queen Creek: 2.25%
Scottsdale: 1.65%
Surprise: 2.2%
Tempe: 1.8%
Tolleson: 2.5%
Wickenburg: 1.7%
Youngtown: 3.0%
GOD BLEEEESS AMERICA!!!
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 04:25 am |
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MrsF wrote: LOL, okay, so I misspoke. TI'm even getting a chuckle out of it. They can, of course, coexist, but I don't think that you can support free enterprise in its purest form and then be opposed to another business and want it shut down because it doesn't jive with your own morals. That's what I was trying to say. I meant to basically say that Raz's belief system is basically mutually exclusive in its nature.
Protesters in the end want the city to "do something", which means government involvement, which doesn't jive with true free enterprise.
I agree with you completely. I think Mama and I probably then do not support free enterprise in the purest form..purest form means, to me, without regulation and without regard for the public good...so if we have companies that want to come to Surprise and pollute our already filthy air, i don't want them. If it's sex stores, i don't want them either....and if it's a store which exploits it's workers and strives to destroy smaller based family stores, I surely don't want them...free enterprise has it's public costs....it's definately not free.
Last edited on Thu May 8th, 2008 05:51 pm by sometimes rational
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MrsF
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:07 am |
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LOL, okay, so I misspoke. TI'm even getting a chuckle out of it. They can, of course, coexist, but I don't think that you can support free enterprise in its purest form and then be opposed to another business and want it shut down because it doesn't jive with your own morals. That's what I was trying to say. I meant to basically say that Raz's belief system is basically mutually exclusive in its nature.
Protesters in the end want the city to "do something", which means government involvement, which doesn't jive with true free enterprise.
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 11:51 pm |
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jwillas wrote: MrsF wrote: Free enterprise and one's morality cannot coexist.
I don't know whether to scratch my head or nod it emphatically. I guess ya had to be there. Sorta like Wonton soup and egg rolls cannot coexist...but there they are..on the table.
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jwillas
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 11:48 pm |
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MrsF wrote: Free enterprise and one's morality cannot coexist.
I don't know whether to scratch my head or nod it emphatically.
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deuce
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 05:11 am |
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A masterful practioner of sophistry. Oh well.
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MrsF
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 05:02 am |
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deuce wrote: MrsF wrote: deuce wrote: Too bad people don't know the meaning of "free enterprise" Here it is:
An economic and political doctrine holding that a capitalist economy can regulate itself in a freely competitive market through the relationship of supply and demand with a minimum of governmental intervention and regulation.
There's no conflict being against a gay community and supporting Walmart's right to build stores. One is an issue of an individual's sense of morality and the other . . .
well, free enterprise.
Deuce,
Thank you for making my point for me. If the supply and demand warrant a gay community in this capitalist society, then by all accounts it should be able to open as such. Free enterprise and one's morality cannot coexist. Clearly, those who oppose Walmart are doing so based on their own morality as well, so why is there a distinction.
I didn't intend to turn this duscussion toward the gay community board in the sense of debating it again. I'm merely pointing out Raz's inconsistency when s/he points to how s/he claims to ALWAYS support free enterprise when I found his/her own comments to contradict that. That was my point.
Thank you, SR for being bright enough to see where I was going with that.
Supporting Walmart and supporting the gay community would at least be a consistent viewpoint. Opposing a gay community due to one's own morals and opposing Walmart due to one's own morals is also consistent. However, to support one and not the other shows an inconsistency.
Ha! Ha! Ha! You may want to consider reviewing your Econ 101 and Elementary Logic text books.
Right, Deuce, as opposed to the "dictionary.com" definition you found, right? You think you are so smart, you haven't said anything at all. I'm telling you that if the market warrants such a place as Walmart or even a gay community (via supply), then a truly capitalist, free-enterprise system will support it based on demand. If the people don't want it (demand), it will go away by sheer lack of support.
However, protesting a business does not mean one can support "free enterprise" in its purest sense. There is a definite contradiction there and the fact that you fail to see it means that maybe you need to look at your own understanding of freedom, free enterprise, and conservative political views as well. Now, refusing to shop there is one thing (not participating in the demand), but trying to stop it before it starts is NOT supporting "free enterprise". Why don't you see that?
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deuce
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 04:41 am |
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MrsF wrote: deuce wrote: Too bad people don't know the meaning of "free enterprise" Here it is:
An economic and political doctrine holding that a capitalist economy can regulate itself in a freely competitive market through the relationship of supply and demand with a minimum of governmental intervention and regulation.
There's no conflict being against a gay community and supporting Walmart's right to build stores. One is an issue of an individual's sense of morality and the other . . .
well, free enterprise.
Deuce,
Thank you for making my point for me. If the supply and demand warrant a gay community in this capitalist society, then by all accounts it should be able to open as such. Free enterprise and one's morality cannot coexist. Clearly, those who oppose Walmart are doing so based on their own morality as well, so why is there a distinction.
I didn't intend to turn this duscussion toward the gay community board in the sense of debating it again. I'm merely pointing out Raz's inconsistency when s/he points to how s/he claims to ALWAYS support free enterprise when I found his/her own comments to contradict that. That was my point.
Thank you, SR for being bright enough to see where I was going with that.
Supporting Walmart and supporting the gay community would at least be a consistent viewpoint. Opposing a gay community due to one's own morals and opposing Walmart due to one's own morals is also consistent. However, to support one and not the other shows an inconsistency.
Ha! Ha! Ha! You may want to consider reviewing your Econ 101 and Elementary Logic text books.
Last edited on Wed May 7th, 2008 04:45 am by deuce
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sometimes rational
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 04:38 am |
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Mamazoyd wrote: MrsF wrote in part:
Supporting Walmart and supporting the gay community would at least be a consistent viewpoint. Opposing a gay community due to one's own morals and opposing Walmart due to one's own morals is also consistent. However, to support one and not the other shows an inconsistency.
I guess I have to argue with this MrsF or maybe I'm not consistent? As far as the gay community, I don't have a problem with that. We all need a place to live and thus far the gays I've met in my life are fine people.
On the other hand, the Walmart is not something I can accept. I don't like the way it treats the employees, I don't like what it stands for, and we don't need another one so close to the previous built one. I also don't like the idea if it falters, they'll close it and we'll have a big ugly empty store sitting too close to my and other's homes.
There is a great point here however. Raz was Mr. Vocal when mom & pop establishments (Fuzzy's, et al) were trying to make it in Surprise. Now, if Walmart has the tendency to put them out of business, to which one is his heart bleeding?
My guess is that RAZ will say it's an issue of survival of the fitest...but the chains can keep there prices artificialy low just to drive the mom and pop's under..and that's an unfair practice, bit one they get away with...they can also negotiate lower prices due to the volume they order...I suppose thee is an economic basis for that, but, I'll continue to go to the Ace hardwares and the local bakery even tho it costs me more..I wasn't going to take it all with me anyway.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 04:17 am |
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MrsF wrote in part:
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