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2008 Presidential Election
 
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Patrick
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 01:16 pm
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Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!

sometimes rational
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 04:48 am
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max22 wrote: Hey SR...did you get your flag pin yet...? LOL...
I
m going to wait til after the election...the Repubs will be selling theirs on EBay very cheaply....Ya sen the new bumper sticker, 'DRAFT REPUBLICANS'  ?   those two words say an awful lot.

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 Posted: Sat Apr 19th, 2008 12:37 am
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Obama - Has a personal relationship with William Ayers, self admitted bomber of the Pentagon, the NYC Police Headquarters and other government buildings.  Just in 2001 commenting on 9/11 said he wishes he could have done more.  Dont know this guy, so a little more clarity please. Once again did I miss something cause I dont remember hearing about all these bombing . Yes 9/11, but all those others I thought we were winning the war on terror and we are keeping it overseas by fighting in Iraq.
This was a planted question by non other then the insane Sean Hannity himself. 

LucifersLandlord
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 11:37 pm
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razenkn wrote:  

It is easy enough to break off little pieces of my post in a feeble attempt to minimize my point, but since some on here don't seem able to connect the dots, let me do a quick synopsis to help you out.  One or two by themselves, a little disconcerning but not major, but put it all together -- very distubring.

Obama -- Chooses NOT to wear US Flag pin on lapel.  Did I miss something? When did this become required attire to run for president?

Obama - Caught not placing hand over heart during Pledge of Allegiance. Ok, this seems a bit odd. I have seen him do it too.
Obama - Sits in Pew of church for 20 years that preaches Anti-Americanism, hates whites (especially rich whites), same church whose Pastor traveled to Libya with Louis Farrakhan to visit Kodafi known terrorist, calls Israel a dirty word, says G.. D... America during sermon.    Pastor married him and baptised his children.  The pastor is not running for president so who cares. If this were policy then nobody who ever voted for daddy Bush could run for president cause he is best buds with the Saudis who are terrorist supporters and the 19 identified hijackers. So how did little Bush get in if you have that mentality?
Obama - Lied about not knowing what his Pastor believes.  This is just dumb cause unless your a mind reader you will never know what someone believes.

Obama - Marched in the Million Man March led by Louis Farrakhan a well known proud racist.  This would be another dumb comment, so every person who marched in that rally including all the politicians who came out to support the cause are Farrakhan supporters? Look for another straw to grasp that one is really weak
Obama - Has a personal relationship with William Ayers, self admitted bomber of the Pentagon, the NYC Police Headquarters and other government buildings.  Just in 2001 commenting on 9/11 said he wishes he could have done more.  Dont know this guy, so a little more clarity please. Once again did I miss something cause I dont remember hearing about all these bombing . Yes 9/11, but all those others I thought we were winning the war on terror and we are keeping it overseas by fighting in Iraq. 
Michelle Obama - Has never been proud of her country her whole adult life and believes America to be mean.  She is not running for president. So what.

Obama - believes small town Americans are bitter and cling to their guns and religion, antipathy towards anyone not like them (prejudiced).  Wow truth hurts sometimes doesnt it. Some of those little towns would rather die than see anything change for the better of the country, better to go down with the ship then patch up the holes in it.

Well, that is the current flap, there is much more to come no doubt.  Any one of these items by themselves, not good.  Collectively, A HUGE RED FLAG that we better pay attention to.   It is a tragedy the liberals are so hell bent on getting their party into power that they can't see the danger here or are just choosing to ignore.

 

 

 

You know I am not a big fan of Obama.  Raz these are pretty flimsy cases to base a debate to end his presidency.  Although I would rather see Hilary in office over Obama and either or over Mcidiot since he doesnt see a problem or even remember who our enemies really are.... 

Last edited on Fri Apr 18th, 2008 11:41 pm by LucifersLandlord

azsu
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 11:29 pm
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raz said:

As far as Obama out on the stump whining and pretending to flick it away as though it is no more bothersome than a piece of lint on his shoulder (which was incredibly arrogant don't you think?) shows his immaturity and lack of depth.  He did not respond well to the hard line of questioning, and doesn't seem to do well without relying upon his pat stump answers on policy matters.  He steps into it on a regualr basis when caught off guard or when he thinks nobody else is able to listen other than his target crowd.



I should have put the site in before....I have listened to a few news programs and not one person has mentioned what their media darling did but his audience sure enjoyed it

 http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2008/04/obama_fingers_a_gotcha_debate.html

I think flipping the bird was a bit shoddier....not once but twice....how childish can you get

razenkn
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 11:01 pm
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Just an FYI, Charlie Rose and George Stephanopolis are liberal.  The debate was completely orchestrated by the Dems.  Sorry, we can't take a hit on that one either.  :) It is also Hillary who is out there laughing at him about not being able to take a punch like a man, she said she has had to do it her whole political life and that this wasn't nothing compared to what he would have to endure if he makes it to the Oval Office.  She actually said he was whining, and that is where I picked it up from.  Not the Hannity.  :D

razenkn
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 11:00 pm
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It is easy enough to break off little pieces of my post in a feeble attempt to minimize my point, but since some on here don't seem able to connect the dots, let me do a quick synopsis to help you out.  One or two by themselves, a little disconcerning but not major, but put it all together -- very distubring.

Obama -- Chooses NOT to wear US Flag pin on lapel. 

Obama - Caught not placing hand over heart during Pledge of Allegiance.

Obama - Sits in Pew of church for 20 years that preaches Anti-Americanism, hates whites (especially rich whites), same church whose Pastor traveled to Libya with Louis Farrakhan to visit Kodafi known terrorist, calls Israel a dirty word, says G.. D... America during sermon.    Pastor married him and baptised his children.

Obama - Lied about not knowing what his Pastor believes.

Obama - Marched in the Million Man March led by Louis Farrakhan a well known proud racist.

Obama - Has a personal relationship with William Ayers, self admitted bomber of the Pentagon, the NYC Police Headquarters and other government buildings.  Just in 2001 commenting on 9/11 said he wishes he could have done more.

Michelle Obama - Has never been proud of her country her whole adult life and believes America to be mean.

Obama - believes small town Americans are bitter and cling to their guns and religion, antipathy towards anyone not like them (prejudiced). 

Well, that is the current flap, there is much more to come no doubt.  Any one of these items by themselves, not good.  Collectively, A HUGE RED FLAG that we better pay attention to.   It is a tragedy the liberals are so hell bent on getting their party into power that they can't see the danger here or are just choosing to ignore.

 

 

 

max22
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 09:12 pm
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Hey SR...did you get your flag pin yet...? LOL...

sometimes rational
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 08:58 pm
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Yo!  Raz===we'll get over George Bush when you get over George Soros...at least the latter never did anything to cause more than three thousand american servicemen and women to die.

cindisue_g
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 06:36 pm
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azsu wrote: As far as Obama out on the stump whining and pretending to flick it away as though it is no more bothersome than a piece of lint on his shoulder (which was incredibly arrogant don't you think?) shows his immaturity and lack of depth.  He did not respond well to the hard line of questioning, and doesn't seem to do well without relying upon his pat stump answers on policy matters.  He steps into it on a regualr basis when caught off guard or when he thinks nobody else is able to listen other than his target crowd.

 

I think flipping the bird was a bit shoddier....not once but twice....how childish can you get
Hard line of questioning - he couldn't even answer the question on what his stand was on gun control.  Finally after he rambled on and on saying nothing, Charlie Gibson went to Clinton and said will you answer the question since Obama wouldn't.  Was he afraid he would have mis-spoke and have to back peddle on his answer - something he continues to do.

azsu
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 05:01 pm
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As far as Obama out on the stump whining and pretending to flick it away as though it is no more bothersome than a piece of lint on his shoulder (which was incredibly arrogant don't you think?) shows his immaturity and lack of depth.  He did not respond well to the hard line of questioning, and doesn't seem to do well without relying upon his pat stump answers on policy matters.  He steps into it on a regualr basis when caught off guard or when he thinks nobody else is able to listen other than his target crowd.

 

I think flipping the bird was a bit shoddier....not once but twice....how childish can you get

razenkn
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 04:29 pm
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max wrote...

no wonder you voted for Bush...look at the people he surrounds himself with...and you say nothing about that... 

Hey everyone...forget about gas prices, education, healthcare, housing, the war, torture, veterans care, the economy, etc... lets worry about more important issues like flag pins...according to raz...that's what is important.


 

I don't say anything about who President Bush surrounds himself with because one, I don't see anything wrong with who he hangs with and two, he's not running in this election.  You people will really need to work on getting over him, whenever you can't defend the democratic candidates you resort back to Bush bashing.  Maybe some counseling would be helpful.  

I already agreed with you that the issues need to be talked about but until they address the character flaw issues, the other things won't matter because unless they can put them to rest, they won't be the President to take care of the real issues.

As far as Obama out on the stump whining and pretending to flick it away as though it is no more bothersome than a piece of lint on his shoulder (which was incredibly arrogant don't you think?) shows his immaturity and lack of depth.  He did not respond well to the hard line of questioning, and doesn't seem to do well without relying upon his pat stump answers on policy matters.  He steps into it on a regualr basis when caught off guard or when he thinks nobody else is able to listen other than his target crowd.

As President what would he do when asked the hard questions on a regular basis by the big boys (as President Bush gets hammered every time he steps up to the podium) during the press conferences, will he flick them off too?  They aren't near as kind and polite as Charlie and George, will he go out the next day and whine and say he isn't going to play anymore like he's saying about not doing anymore debates?

MoveOn.Org a.k.a. GEORGE SOROS, has said they are so furious over the line of questioning that they are going to get together a petition to prevent the debates from being able to ask such questions in the future.  ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  This just shows how much MoveOn.Org believes they own the democratic party, who gives them the right to dictate what is asked and what isn't?

The Dems have made a deal with the devil, all for money.  Very disturbing.  If MoveOn.org/GEORGE SOROS feel they can control the election, wait until their candidate gets into the highest office in the World.  They are already running Congress Nancy and Harry. :shock:

 

 

 

 

Last edited on Fri Apr 18th, 2008 04:41 pm by razenkn

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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 04:22 pm
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max22 wrote: You guys crack me up. I just read these exact same talking points from the Daily Kos, and Barack Obama's website, what a surprise!!!! And here all this time I thought your posts were your own.:shock:  The words "gotcha" and "trivial" were very popular on both.  :D

Let's see, according to you hanging with a bomber, a REAL bomber, a Hate America bomber is trivial.  Putting down small town America in an elitist snobby manner is no big deal.  Not willing to wear the US Flag pin on his lapel, not important.  Sittiing in a church pew for 20 years listening to "hate America" and "hate whites" just silly chatter. His wife saying she has never been proud of her country in her adult life and that America is a mean country, girl talk? Barack has surrounded himself with these people and he has said what he has said.  Non issues??  You want this guy to be the next President of our country, and you think these are just non-issues? What does he have to do before you decide he may not be the person to lead our great country, kill somebody?

If this was reversed, and the republican candidate was hanging with similar right wing nutjobs, UMMM..Raz.....the current Republican President has been surrounding himself with "similar right wing nutjobs"  ...so...RAZ..it's not news anymore ...know what we're saying babe?   it would be on the front page of every paper from San Francisco to the NY Times every single day and you know it.  Nobody is over reacting here, we are worried for our country.  Party isn't the issue here, although some keep trying to make it that, it's about electing a true American, somebody that doesn't have to convince us he really loves our country.  Don't you get that?

no wonder you voted for Bush...look at the people he surrounds himself with...and you say nothing about that... 

Hey everyone...forget about gas prices, education, healthcare, housing, the war, torture, veterans care, the economy, etc... lets worry about more important issues like flag pins...according to raz...that's what is important.

max22
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 01:39 pm
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You guys crack me up. I just read these exact same talking points from the Daily Kos, and Barack Obama's website, what a surprise!!!! And here all this time I thought your posts were your own.:shock:  The words "gotcha" and "trivial" were very popular on both.  :D

Let's see, according to you hanging with a bomber, a REAL bomber, a Hate America bomber is trivial.  Putting down small town America in an elitist snobby manner is no big deal.  Not willing to wear the US Flag pin on his lapel, not important.  Sittiing in a church pew for 20 years listening to "hate America" and "hate whites" just silly chatter. His wife saying she has never been proud of her country in her adult life and that America is a mean country, girl talk? Barack has surrounded himself with these people and he has said what he has said.  Non issues??  You want this guy to be the next President of our country, and you think these are just non-issues? What does he have to do before you decide he may not be the person to lead our great country, kill somebody?

If this was reversed, and the republican candidate was hanging with similar right wing nutjobs, it would be on the front page of every paper from San Francisco to the NY Times every single day and you know it.  Nobody is over reacting here, we are worried for our country.  Party isn't the issue here, although some keep trying to make it that, it's about electing a true American, somebody that doesn't have to convince us he really loves our country.  Don't you get that?

no wonder you voted for Bush...look at the people he surrounds himself with...and you say nothing about that... 

Hey everyone...forget about gas prices, education, healthcare, housing, the war, torture, veterans care, the economy, etc... lets worry about more important issues like flag pins...according to raz...that's what is important.

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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 05:37 am
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razenkn wrote: The Democratic debate last evening was very informative.  I give ABC an A+.  There were no softball questions and went right to the controversial issues which need to be answered directly or they will continue to come up.  I would think Obama would have appreciated the opportunity to set the record straight but instead he wasn't happy about it.  He wants to change the subject to issues which are no doubt vitally important but nobody will talk about them until he straightens out the controversies.  Hillary has used them against him time and time again. 

However, instead of being grateful, Obama was highly agitated over this change in tactic and summarily dismissed the entire debate in which he came out looking angry and exposed, by flicking his fingers as to rid himself of a piece of lint.  Very charming, but it won't hold up in court. (court of public opinion) 

Barack did not have the answers supporters needed to hear in order to stand behind him on the subject of his Crazy Pastor and his Crazy terrorist friend, William Ayers.  In fact, he created more questions than answers so this won't be the last we have heard of either of them. 

Obama's campaign said he is friendly with Ayers.  When he decided to run for the Illinois state legislator, he had his campaign strategy meeting at Ayers house.  He served on a board with Mr Ayers for several years.  His kids go to school together.  He has given speeches with him.  In other words, he likes the guy and apparently doesn't believe the guy did anything wrong in bombing the Pentagon, the Capital and the NYC PD Headquarters.  He was not convicted  because of CIA screw up on a technicality, not because he wasn't guilty since he has admitted doing it openly.  In fact on 9/11 Ayers said he wished he had done more.  Barack blows it off saying that he was only 8 years old when Ayers did all of this. But despite knowing that about Ayers, Obama still maintains his relationship with the guy.  Disturbing??? Oh hell yeah.:shock:

Michelle Obama - "The US is a mean country" and she has "never been proud of her country her whole adult life until now".  Nice if you'd provide the entire quote and context even when it doesn't suit your agenda.

Barack Obama -- I do not need to wear a flag lapel pin, I love my country.....really, I love it. I show my patriotism in other ways.......By not covering your heart with your hand during the pledge of allegiance?  Attending a church for 20 years that applauds when Pastor Crazy screams G.. D... America!!!  US of KKK A.... or Marching in the Million Man March led by Louis Farrakhan? 

The only candidate that actually has to try to convince people he loves his country and never gives a reason why he doesn't wear the flag pin.  It's not that he doesn't, it's the fact he makes a conscious decision NOT to.  Obama doesn't feel the need to wear a prop, which is exactly what the lapel pin is...all the lapel pins in the world won't provide intelligence, vision and ability..Bush, Cheney and Rummy wore lapel pins...guess that counts a  lot with you.

If Obama supporters aren't in the least disturbed by any of this, then our country has a bigger problem than we thought and it is only going to get worse if we put these hard left to the core die hards in power.  NO, it really doesn't...we're more concerned with war, security, economy, education and healthcare then who is wearing lapel pins, or pant suits, or bow ties, or ..whatever.

 


Reactr
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 04:36 am
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What difference does it really make which candidate wins the presidency? America has one of the most corrupt governments in the western world. The Washington establishment is bought and paid for before they get in office. Anyone who actually believes the new president is going to significantly change the money flow system is dreaming. Remember the buzzword "change" does not automatically mean change for the better.Be careful what you ask for,you may get it.

razenkn
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 03:31 am
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max22 wrote: Are you kidding...the debate was lame...it was a trivial waste of time. I don't know what debate you were watching but the one I saw was terrible

I guess raz considers, Rev. Wright, flag pins, the Weathermen, and lack of sniper fire in Bosnia to be real issues. Let's not forget the whole "bitter" non-issue.

The real issues got passed up for "gotcha politics". Gas prices, the housing crisis, health care, the war in Iraq, torture, education, unemployment, etc..., those are the real issues, not whether or not your a real American by wearing a flag pin. Instead we get some kind of gossip tv show. No wonder Obama was a little less impressed with the debate. it was a sham...ABC should be ashamed of themselves. They had a chance to put real issues on the table and they blew it with a "fox news" style blab fest of non-issue questions.

Wow...way to stay on top of what's really important raz. You keep doing a fine job with the non-issues and the rest of us will focus on the "real" issues...

You guys crack me up. I just read these exact same talking points from the Daily Kos, and Barack Obama's website, what a surprise!!!! And here all this time I thought your posts were your own.:shock:  The words "gotcha" and "trivial" were very popular on both.  :D

Let's see, according to you hanging with a bomber, a REAL bomber, a Hate America bomber is trivial.  Putting down small town America in an elitist snobby manner is no big deal.  Not willing to wear the US Flag pin on his lapel, not important.  Sittiing in a church pew for 20 years listening to "hate America" and "hate whites" just silly chatter. His wife saying she has never been proud of her country in her adult life and that America is a mean country, girl talk? Barack has surrounded himself with these people and he has said what he has said.  Non issues??  You want this guy to be the next President of our country, and you think these are just non-issues? What does he have to do before you decide he may not be the person to lead our great country, kill somebody?

If this was reversed, and the republican candidate was hanging with similar right wing nutjobs, it would be on the front page of every paper from San Francisco to the NY Times every single day and you know it.  Nobody is over reacting here, we are worried for our country.  Party isn't the issue here, although some keep trying to make it that, it's about electing a true American, somebody that doesn't have to convince us he really loves our country.  Don't you get that?:?

 

 

Last edited on Fri Apr 18th, 2008 03:35 am by razenkn

max22
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 12:43 am
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Are you kidding...the debate was lame...it was a trivial waste of time. I don't know what debate you were watching but the one I saw was terrible

I guess raz considers, Rev. Wright, flag pins, the Weathermen, and lack of sniper fire in Bosnia to be real issues. Let's not forget the whole "bitter" non-issue.

The real issues got passed up for "gotcha politics". Gas prices, the housing crisis, health care, the war in Iraq, torture, education, unemployment, etc..., those are the real issues, not whether or not your a real American by wearing a flag pin. Instead we get some kind of gossip tv show. No wonder Obama was a little less impressed with the debate. it was a sham...ABC should be ashamed of themselves. They had a chance to put real issues on the table and they blew it with a "fox news" style blab fest of non-issue questions.

Wow...way to stay on top of what's really important raz. You keep doing a fine job with the non-issues and the rest of us will focus on the "real" issues...


http://mediamatters.org/items/200804170007?f=h_top

http://mediamatters.org/altercation/200804170004?f=h_top

 

Last edited on Fri Apr 18th, 2008 01:47 am by max22

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 Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 12:31 am
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That debate should have been on America Funniest Home Videos.
Obama put his foot in his mouth with the very first question and couldn't get it out the whole debate. He didn't have an answer for any question he was given.
I though Hillary made a little more sense but not much more.

So Wednesday night was comedy night here anyway.

razenkn
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 11:07 pm
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The Democratic debate last evening was very informative.  I give ABC an A+.  There were no softball questions and went right to the controversial issues which need to be answered directly or they will continue to come up.  I would think Obama would have appreciated the opportunity to set the record straight but instead he wasn't happy about it.  He wants to change the subject to issues which are no doubt vitally important but nobody will talk about them until he straightens out the controversies.  Hillary has used them against him time and time again. 

However, instead of being grateful, Obama was highly agitated over this change in tactic and summarily dismissed the entire debate in which he came out looking angry and exposed, by flicking his fingers as to rid himself of a piece of lint.  Very charming, but it won't hold up in court. (court of public opinion) 

Barack did not have the answers supporters needed to hear in order to stand behind him on the subject of his Crazy Pastor and his Crazy terrorist friend, William Ayers.  In fact, he created more questions than answers so this won't be the last we have heard of either of them. 

Obama's campaign said he is friendly with Ayers.  When he decided to run for the Illinois state legislator, he had his campaign strategy meeting at Ayers house.  He served on a board with Mr Ayers for several years.  His kids go to school together.  He has given speeches with him.  In other words, he likes the guy and apparently doesn't believe the guy did anything wrong in bombing the Pentagon, the Capital and the NYC PD Headquarters.  He was not convicted  because of CIA screw up on a technicality, not because he wasn't guilty since he has admitted doing it openly.  In fact on 9/11 Ayers said he wished he had done more.  Barack blows it off saying that he was only 8 years old when Ayers did all of this. But despite knowing that about Ayers, Obama still maintains his relationship with the guy.  Disturbing??? Oh hell yeah.:shock:

Michelle Obama - "The US is a mean country" and she has "never been proud of her country her whole adult life until now".

Barack Obama -- I do not need to wear a flag lapel pin, I love my country.....really, I love it. I show my patriotism in other ways.......By not covering your heart with your hand during the pledge of allegiance?  Attending a church for 20 years that applauds when Pastor Crazy screams G.. D... America!!!  US of KKK A.... or Marching in the Million Man March led by Louis Farrakhan? 

The only candidate that actually has to try to convince people he loves his country and never gives a reason why he doesn't wear the flag pin.  It's not that he doesn't, it's the fact he makes a conscious decision NOT to. 

If Obama supporters aren't in the least disturbed by any of this, then our country has a bigger problem than we thought and it is only going to get worse if we put these hard left to the core die hards in power.  

 

Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 11:45 pm by razenkn

cindisue_g
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 09:13 pm
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sometimes rational wrote: cindisue_g wrote: sometimes rational, sorry I heard what I heard, had nothing to do with Raz's interpretation.  If you didn't comprehend the same way, that is fine.  I know what I heard. 

Just like Obama saying he would not raise taxes on those making under $200,000 a year - who the hell does he think is going to pay for everything he wants to do.  Health Care for all, free education for all, etc.  People who have been getting the tax breaks who earn over $299K (you answered your own question) and fewer breaks for business..sorry RAZ, maybe your deductable lunches in nice restaurants will not be at the taxpaper's expense. I don't believe this for a minute!  Obama is going to have to raise the taxes for everyone otherwise he would not be able to fund his health care, education, save the earth - I think that was $150 billion, etc.

Just like Obama saying he would do whatever is required to prevent the Iranians from obtaining nuclear weapons - why do I think that means another war.  You think McCain is MORE opposed to war than Obama?  Really.  I was not speaking of McCain (nor did I say that {you just like Max22 seem to want to put words in other peoples posting}) - all I hear from the Democrats are we have to end the war and now Obama will do anything it takes to keep Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons - does this mean another war????

Just like Obama saying he specifically said that these comments (the good reverend Wright's racists ramblings) were objectionable. They're not comments that I believe in. And I disassociated myself with them. -  But what he forgot to say, he only disassociated himself with the good Reverend after the news media starting all the reports about it, otherwise he sat like a good follower and listened to this crap for years and years and years, I guess it was not objectionable then.

Just like Obama now is saying the problem that we have in our politics, which is fairly typical, is that you take one person's statement, if it's not properly phrased, and you just beat it to death, and that's what Senator Clinton's been doing - Now he doesn't  know how to phrase a comment properly and you want him running the country.  So if a misphasing of a statement rules out a candidate for you, I guess you're not voting for McCain wither, since he three times confused the Shiites with the Sunnis.  I do not feel that he misspoke (my personal opinion, I think he has been caught telling the truth and then back peddling) - I was just using one of his comments to make the point if he can't properly phrase a comment, what would he say if he became President.

The thing I do agree with raz about is some of his thoughts on the housing market bailout.  I don't have a problem helping anyone, but I do not think we should help those that knew exactly what they could afford and went with an ARM so that they could keep up with the Jones' or in an effort to turn the house and make a large profit.  You can not blame the lenders for everyone that is having a problem.  When I purchased each of my houses, I made darn sure that I could afford my house payment now and in the future to the best of my abilities and even in hard times I never skipped a house payment.  If someone has lost their job and can't pay their mortgage, I'd be willing to help.  But if they have the same job, same situation; then they should loose their house and hopefully they will learn from it.  Do I agree that loan companies or builders should be helped; no way that is business and they should have been a little smarter.  we do agree on this excpet I'd sya business should have been a lot smarter...on the other hand, they felt confident that they would be bailed out by this exceedingly pro=business administration in Washington which loves them so much.

 



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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 08:40 pm
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cindisue_g wrote: sometimes rational, sorry I heard what I heard, had nothing to do with Raz's interpretation.  If you didn't comprehend the same way, that is fine.  I know what I heard. 

Just like Obama saying he would not raise taxes on those making under $200,000 a year - who the hell does he think is going to pay for everything he wants to do.  Health Care for all, free education for all, etc.  People who have been getting the tax breaks who earn over $299K (you answered your own question) and fewer breaks for business..sorry RAZ, maybe your deductable lunches in nice restaurants will not be at the taxpaper's expense.

Just like Obama saying he would do whatever is required to prevent the Iranians from obtaining nuclear weapons - why do I think that means another war.  You think McCain is MORE opposed to war than Obama?  Really.

Just like Obama saying he specifically said that these comments (the good reverend Wright's racists ramblings) were objectionable. They're not comments that I believe in. And I disassociated myself with them. -  But what he forgot to say, he only disassociated himself with the good Reverend after the news media starting all the reports about it, otherwise he sat like a good follower and listened to this crap for years and years and years, I guess it was not objectionable then.

Just like Obama now is saying the problem that we have in our politics, which is fairly typical, is that you take one person's statement, if it's not properly phrased, and you just beat it to death, and that's what Senator Clinton's been doing - Now he doesn't  know how to phrase a comment properly and you want him running the country.  So if a misphasing of a statement rules out a candidate for you, I guess you're not voting for McCain wither, since he three times confused the Shiites with the Sunnis.

The thing I do agree with raz about is some of his thoughts on the housing market bailout.  I don't have a problem helping anyone, but I do not think we should help those that knew exactly what they could afford and went with an ARM so that they could keep up with the Jones' or in an effort to turn the house and make a large profit.  You can not blame the lenders for everyone that is having a problem.  When I purchased each of my houses, I made darn sure that I could afford my house payment now and in the future to the best of my abilities and even in hard times I never skipped a house payment.  If someone has lost their job and can't pay their mortgage, I'd be willing to help.  But if they have the same job, same situation; then they should loose their house and hopefully they will learn from it.  Do I agree that loan companies or builders should be helped; no way that is business and they should have been a little smarter.  we do agree on this excpet I'd sya business should have been a lot smarter...on the other hand, they felt confident that they would be bailed out by this exceedingly pro=business administration in Washington which loves them so much.

 


cindisue_g
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 05:43 pm
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Now hold on Max22.  You continue to try to put words where they are not.  You don't know my feelings about Bush - you never asked, you just assumed and guess what you assumed wrong.  I don't think Bush is God, it is you that thinks Obama is and that he can do no wrong (hate to break it to you, but everyone does wrong.  A real man or woman is able to admit it and try to change it).  I want what is best for our country going forward and I sure don't think it is Obama. 

Maybe the reason no one listens to you is because you don't listen, all you do is make assumptions....and you are usually wrong. 

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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 03:24 pm
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SR, it's not going to do any good to try and rationalize with those two, they are in the Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter and Malkin mentality. They think that Bush is god, the republicans are the saviors of the United States. We know differently.

They want to beat down the Democrats anyway they can because they know that their party is on the verge of losing it's power in D.C., and that scares them to death. So trying to convince them that their party is worthless is a losing battle. Let them think what they want to and let's sit back and watch as Democrats fix the mess the republicans and Bush created.

cindisue_g
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:56 pm
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sometimes rational, sorry I heard what I heard, had nothing to do with Raz's interpretation.  If you didn't comprehend the same way, that is fine.  I know what I heard. 

Just like Obama saying he would not raise taxes on those making under $200,000 a year - who the hell does he think is going to pay for everything he wants to do.  Health Care for all, free education for all, etc. 

Just like Obama saying he would do whatever is required to prevent the Iranians from obtaining nuclear weapons - why do I think that means another war.

Just like Obama saying he specifically said that these comments (the good reverend Wright's racists ramblings) were objectionable. They're not comments that I believe in. And I disassociated myself with them. -  But what he forgot to say, he only disassociated himself with the good Reverend after the news media starting all the reports about it, otherwise he sat like a good follower and listened to this crap for years and years and years, I guess it was not objectionable then.

Just like Obama now is saying the problem that we have in our politics, which is fairly typical, is that you take one person's statement, if it's not properly phrased, and you just beat it to death, and that's what Senator Clinton's been doing - Now he doesn't  know how to phrase a comment properly and you want him running the country.

The thing I do agree with raz about is some of his thoughts on the housing market bailout.  I don't have a problem helping anyone, but I do not think we should help those that knew exactly what they could afford and went with an ARM so that they could keep up with the Jones' or in an effort to turn the house and make a large profit.  You can not blame the lenders for everyone that is having a problem.  When I purchased each of my houses, I made darn sure that I could afford my house payment now and in the future to the best of my abilities and even in hard times I never skipped a house payment.  If someone has lost their job and can't pay their mortgage, I'd be willing to help.  But if they have the same job, same situation; then they should loose their house and hopefully they will learn from it.  Do I agree that loan companies or builders should be helped; no way that is business and they should have been a little smarter.

 

Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 03:02 pm by cindisue_g

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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 06:42 am
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razenkn wrote:  

Oh no, how could I ever misjudge such tragedy???  You are absolutely right, the sky is falling.  Let's get real here.  Yes, some people are losing their homes, but not because the economy is crashing, because they used some really poor judgement in purchasing homes they couldn't afford driving prices through the roof.  Sorry, I have absolutely no sympathy there whatsoever.  If someone could only afford a house costing $200,000 but purchased one priced at $500,000 thinking they could make a killing off of it, well you get what you get.  And, that is exactly what happened.  It didn't take a genius to figure out that wasn't going to last very long and some made a ton of $$$ off of the greediness of others, some didn't.  Sorry, that's the gamble they took.  The government didn't play any part in that fiasco.

Jobs flying out the window.  Hardly.  Everyone I know is employed and doing very well actually.  We've all taken some hits on our 401K's, but it's certainly not the first time that ever happened and it certainly won't be the last. 

I used the restaurant observation as just that, an observation.  I was thinking today while noticing the demographics of the restaurant if our economy is in such dire straights, why are all these people from all walks of life in here spending their hard earned cash on a Wednesday lunch?  Funny how they all looked fairly happy too. Things must not be as bad as some keep beating their chests about, or else somebody forgot to tell these people.  Hopefully they will drive their Lexus SUV's and Escalades to the car dealers and trade them in for a Prius because they won't be able to afford gas unless Congress can off their A$$ and start helping us drill and get the Fed's hand out of our pockets with the gas tax to nowhere.

Some on here are sounding a little "bitter" and of course, I mean that in the nicest way.  :cool:

 

 


Just wondering if you have any idea of what kind of a pompous ass you present as?  RAZ--sorry about the hits to your 401 k's..lotsa people don't  have them..especially those layed off.  Next:  ppl in nice restaurants generally look happy..they can afford to eat in a nice restaurant, DUH...The majority of ppl losing their homes are not investors motivated by greed..they were probably your lunch guests, but first time buyers or those trading up who were fraudulently led to believe real estate always goes up...you probably were glad that the bill to license mortgage brokers failed in this state..that allowed the scum-sucking predators stay in business...I hope you had a nice lunch..and left a tip.

 

Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 06:45 am by

razenkn
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 05:16 am
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Oh no, how could I ever misjudge such tragedy???  You are absolutely right, the sky is falling.  Let's get real here.  Yes, some people are losing their homes, but not because the economy is crashing, because they used some really poor judgement in purchasing homes they couldn't afford driving prices through the roof.  Sorry, I have absolutely no sympathy there whatsoever.  If someone could only afford a house costing $200,000 but purchased one priced at $500,000 thinking they could make a killing off of it, well you get what you get.  And, that is exactly what happened.  It didn't take a genius to figure out that wasn't going to last very long and some made a ton of $$$ off of the greediness of others, some didn't.  Sorry, that's the gamble they took.  The government didn't play any part in that fiasco.

Jobs flying out the window.  Hardly.  Everyone I know is employed and doing very well actually.  We've all taken some hits on our 401K's, but it's certainly not the first time that ever happened and it certainly won't be the last. 

I used the restaurant observation as just that, an observation.  I was thinking today while noticing the demographics of the restaurant if our economy is in such dire straights, why are all these people from all walks of life in here spending their hard earned cash on a Wednesday lunch?  Funny how they all looked fairly happy too. Things must not be as bad as some keep beating their chests about, or else somebody forgot to tell these people.  Hopefully they will drive their Lexus SUV's and Escalades to the car dealers and trade them in for a Prius because they won't be able to afford gas unless Congress can off their A$$ and start helping us drill and get the Fed's hand out of our pockets with the gas tax to nowhere.

Some on here are sounding a little "bitter" and of course, I mean that in the nicest way.  :cool:

 

 

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razenkn wrote:
Max wrote...
So don't vote for him then...vote for 4 more years of the same garbage, the same agenda, the same war, and more of the same hardtimes for Americans.

According to Max, if you are a Republican that automatically makes us liars because we hate the truth. hmmm.  I can't speak for the millions of Republicans out there, but I for one resent that statement, a lot.  Very offensive and speaking of truth?  Very untrue.  Under your logic, the Republicans do want four more years of "hard times" for America, because why?  Oh that 's right, to be Republican is to be a liar and evil.  And you tell me to stay away from FNC, I should think you might want to take a breather from where you get your information because you aren't hearing that kind of hateful diatribe from any of us.

Look around you Max, what hard times?  I had a lunch meeting today in a nice restaurant, the place was packed.  There were as many young Mom's with little kids in there as business people and retirees.  Drive down Bell Rd, count how many luxury vehicles you see.  Folks are screaming about the airline fiasco because they have tickets to fly all over the country and world this summer and now their expensive vacations are ruined.  Yo, RAZ--so you had lunch today in a "nice' restaurant" and the place was packed..so that means all is well with the economy..we can allll relax...EARTH to RAZ...people kicked out of their jobs and their homes don't have the money you do to have a "business' lunch in a "nice restaurant"...RAZ..and you call Obama an elitist??? you are unbelievable!

Gas prices too high.  Yes they definitely are. How about suspending the gas tax the Feds are grabbing from us to help out.  Another brilliant idea--NOT...lower the gas tax to increase consumption which will raise the price of crude to even higher levels.... ....your man Bush rushed went to Saudi to beg for lower gas prices when it then hit $100 per barrel...by the time he stumbled over the steps entering the White House when he returned, crude hit $110...that is the Democrats fault?  We didn't elect a moron.  You did.What are they doing with that money anyway, they certainly aren't drilling in our country where we would have control over the availability or building any refineries.  I could go on forever but will spare you my soap box once more Thank you!, but to say four more years of hardship is pure unadulterated political drama talking points.

 

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cindisue_g wrote: Whoa!  I did hear what he said - thought it was an asinine comment and very judgmental and elitist of him.  Secondly, who ever said that I was supporting Hillary or am on her side?  Maybe it is you that does not know how to comprehend!
You did NOT hear Obama call anyone a stupid, gun toting religious fanatic....if you really think you did, you are hearing voices....those words were what RAZ interpreted Obama's comments to mean...there is a difference btween words said and RAZ's interpretation..

Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 04:38 am by

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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 04:18 am
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The Dem Senate majority (or at least prevention of a GOP majority) depends on Lieberman, who has become a joke.  He has all but publicly applied for VP under McCain.  That being said, as a Democrat I am disappointed to say I completely agree with Raz that the House has been essentially worthless the last two years.

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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 03:46 am
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Those poor, poor democrats in power now can't get anything done because of the big bad Republicans keep getting in the way.  How sad.  The truth here is that the poor poor democrats aren't getting anything done because they don't know what they are supposed to do.  They made such outlandish promises to get into office, promises they knew they could never deliver so now they just name post offices.  They are poor, couldn't agree more.:(

You continue to rag on President Bush and his 37 percent approval rating, let's check out the NEW Sheriff In Town Democratic First female Speak of the House Nancy Pelosi - Harry Reid party who were going to end the war, lower gas prices and make America well again!!!! Historically low 11% approval rating..... Rah, rah, rah, rah!!!!

Oh, that didn't happen did it?  But, it's the Republican's fault.  Who is the majority again?  Democrats....the fixers of all evil.....  Hmmmmm.....:?

 

Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 04:18 am by razenkn

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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 02:59 am
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And there is no point discussing with you.  You think the Democrats walk on water, many know otherwise.  

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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:31 am
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There's no point in discussing anything with you...you want to blame everything on Democrats...just remember this...the republicans are the ones who screwed everything up...they were in power for 12 years and now you are blaming everything they did on the Democrats...

Gas prices were up long before Democrats came into power...where was your outrage then...?

No child left behind was BS from the start...but the republicans rubber stamped it...

etc...etc...

That shows you can't hold your own party accountable for the things they done...and I will tell you one more time...

Democrats can't get anything done BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS WON'T LET THEM...

I hope it sinks in this time...

Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:34 am by max22

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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:26 am
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Oh I listened - I listened and believed when they said they would get the price of gas down - I'm paying more than I ever had.  I listened and believed with they said they would get the price of education down - paying more on that one too!!  I listened and believe when they said no more ear marking - they let me know on that one as well.  I listened, they lied - I won't be fooled again.  Fool me once, shame on me - but you will never get a second chance. 

And now you want me to vote for someone who is not committed to the United States, who puts down the working class, listens to a bigot for pastor for many, many years - nope - never will happen.

Last edited on Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:28 am by cindisue_g

max22
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:18 am
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cindisue_g wrote: Max22, the Democrats that ran said they were going to reduce the cost of gas, reduce the cost of education, stop ear marking, etc. and I ask again, what did they do?  NOTHING. Make that absolutely NOTHING.  Look at where the price of gas is, look at the cost of education, how many ear marks did Obama do, how many ear marks did Clinton do. 

Obama now feels that he is elite otherwise why would he make such elitist comments like - that the working class people get so frustrated with the economy that they turn to faith or guns  - what does he turn to, oh! sorry he made 4.1 million dollars last year, he is not frustrated.

You are the only one on here that should be embarrassed - embarrassed because you can only defend Obama, you can't look at the facts.


Again...you don't listen...

The Dems have done quite a bit already...

Democrats have passed a series of measures to advance the agenda of the Ameriacn people:


Democrats Passed First Minimum Wage Increase in a Decade. “The nation's lowest-paid workers will soon find extra money in their pockets as the minimum wage rises 70 cents to $5.85 an hour today, the first increase in a decade. It ends the longest span without a federal minimum wage increase since it was enacted in 1938. The previous increase came in September 1997, when a bill signed by President Bill Clinton raised the minimum 40 cents, to $5.15 an hour. Legislation signed by President Bush in May increases the wage 70 cents each summer until 2009, when all minimum-wage jobs will pay no less than $7.25 an hour.” [Associated Press, 7/24/07]

Democrats Passed War Spending Bill that Included $6 Billion for Hurricane Relief. “The war spending bill provides about $95 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through Sept. 30 and billions in domestic projects, including more than $6 billion for hurricane relief.” [Associated Press,
5/25/07]

Democrats Passed Wounded Warriors Bill to Upgrade Military Health Care and Provide a 3.5% Pay Raise for Our Troops. “Senate Democrats scored a crucial pre-recess legislative win Wednesday, as a veterans’ healthcare measure and military pay raise previously attached to the stalled defense authorization bill passed unanimously. Republicans sought to add the 3.5 percent pay increase to the healthcare bill, dubbed the Wounded Warriors Act, before allowing immediate passage of the package.” [The Hill, 7/26/07]

Democrats Passed Legislation Out of Committee Providing the Largest Increase for Veterans Affairs Funding in History. “House and Senate appropriators are both confidently moving forward with their proposals to give the Veterans Affairs Department its largest-ever budget increase to address the increasing health care needs of veterans returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The House passed its version of the fiscal 2008 Military Construction and Veterans Affairs appropriations bill (HR 2642) June 15 by a vote of 409-2. The Senate Appropriations Committee approved, 28-1, its draft version on June 14.” [CQ Today, 6/15/07]

Iraq Supplemental Appropriations Bill Included Additional $1.8 Billion for Veterans’ Health Care. “The House and Senate approved the $120 billion package yesterday. The president had requested $103 billion, but Congress added additional spending requirements to increase veterans’ health care programs by $1.8 billion, military construction and realignment by almost $5 billion, and homeland security by more than $1 billion.” [VFW Press Release,
5/25/07]

Democrats Passed Bill to Implement 9/11 Commission Recommendations. “The Senate overwhelmingly approved legislation yesterday to implement many of the remaining reforms suggested by the Sept. 11 commission, answering its three-year-old call for better emergency communications; more money for cities at high risk of terrorist attacks; and tighter security for air cargo, ports, chemical plants and rail systems.” [Washington Post,
3/14/07]

Democrats Passed Ethics and Lobbying Reform Bill. “Senate Democrats and Republicans broke a difficult stalemate last night and approved 96 to 2 expansive legislation to curtail the influence of lobbyists, tighten congressional ethics rules and prevent the spouses of senators from lobbying senators and their staffs. The Senate legislation, hailed by proponents as the most significant ethics reform since Watergate, would ban gifts, meals and travel funded by lobbyists, and would force lawmakers to attach their names to special-interest provisions and pet projects that they slip into bills. Lawmakers would have to pay charter rates on corporate jets, not the far-cheaper first-class rates they pay now.” [Washington Post,
1/19/07]

Democrats Passed Bill to Cut Subsidies to Student Lenders and Provide $17 Billion in Grants and Other Student Aid. “The Senate overwhelmingly approved a wide-ranging overhaul of student loan programs early today that would pay for more than $17 billion in grants and other student aid by slashing subsidies to lending companies. Democrats and student advocates said the legislation, which passed in a 78 to 18 vote, would help millions of Americans pay for college in a time of steady and often steep tuition increases.” [Washington Post, 7/19/07]

Democrats Passed a Bill to Better Regulate the Student Loan Industry. “Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts made the comments shortly after senators passed legislation (S 1642) to reauthorize the primary law governing colleges, universities and federal aid by an overwhelming margin of 95-0…. The underlying bill would increase the amount of information that schools and lenders must provide to students — including up-front disclosure of loan rates and terms and data on total school costs — and would ban lenders from giving schools financial aid funds or any other perks to get on a preferred lender list…. The bill would require colleges and universities to draft codes of conduct governing relationships with lenders; shorten the application form for federal student aid; and authorize a pilot program to allow students to learn the total aid they can expect to receive up to two years in advance.” [CQ Today, 7/24/07]

Democrats Passed a Fiscally Responsible Budget. “Congress gave final approval on Thursday to a $2.9 trillion budget plan that promises big spending increases for education and health care and a federal surplus in five years… Democrats said their budget measure would put the government $41 billion in the black by 2012, after steady deficits since 2002. They said the measure also would reversing Bush's clampdown on domestic agencies' annual budgets passed by Congress… The budget plan would lock in a promise by Democrats to restore pay-as-you-go rules. Republicans abandoned these in 2001 to pass Bush's tax cuts.” [Associated Press,
5/17/07]

Democrats Passed Energy Bill That Increased Fuel-Efficiency Standards for First Time Since 1975. “The Senate passed a sweeping energy legislation package last night that would mandate the first substantial change in the nation's vehicle fuel-efficiency law since 1975 despite opposition from auto companies and their Senate supporters… The package, which still must pass the House, would also require that the use of biofuels climb to 36 billion gallons by 2022, would set penalties for gasoline price-gouging and would give the government new powers to investigate oil companies' pricing. It would provide federal grants and loan guarantees to promote research into fuel-efficient vehicles and would support test projects to capture carbon dioxide from coal-burning power plants to be stored underground.” [Washington Post,
6/22/07]


 
Meanwhile time after time the Senate Republicans have obstructed progress on America's priorities:


Democrats Pushed for A New Direction in Iraq; Republicans Obstructed. On July 17 and July 18, Democrats held an all night debate to force a change of course in Iraq. Republicans obstructed Democratic attempts to vote on the Levin-Reed Amendment 8 times. Republicans have obstructed progress on legislation calling for a change of course in Iraq 8 times earlier in the year. [Senate Floor Proceedings, 7/17/07-7/18/07; Senate Vote #241, HR 1585, 7/11/07; Senate Vote #171, HR 2206, 5/17/07; Senate Vote #167, HR 1495, 5/16/07; Senate Vote #117, HR 1591, 3/28/07; Senate Vote #74, S.J.Res. 9, 3/14/07; Senate Vote #51, S. 574, 2/17/07; Senate Vote #44, S. 470, 2/5/07; Senate Vote #43, S. Con. Res. 2, 2/1/07]

Democrats Tried to Pass a Minimum Wage Increase; Republicans Obstructed. On January 24, Republicans blocked a bill that would have increased the minimum wage to $7.25 per hour over two years. [Senate Vote #23, HR 2, 1/24/07]

Democrats Tried to Pass Tax Incentives for Clean Energy; Republicans Obstructed. On June 21, Republicans blocked an amendment that would have established $32.1 billion of tax incentives for alternative energy sources while imposing taxes on the oil and gas industry. The amendment would have created $3.6 billion worth of renewable energy bonds, established $11 billion in tax incentives for renewable energy and authorize $2.5 billion for the Secure Rural Schools and Community Self Determination Act. [Senate Vote #223, HR 6, 6/21/07] 

Democrats Tried Twice to Pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform; Republicans Obstructed. On June 7 and June 28, Republicans blocked debate on comprehensive immigration reform. [Senate Vote #206, S. 1348, 6/7/07; Senate Vote #235, S. 1639, 6/28/07]  

Democrats Tried to Pass Intelligence Authorization; Republicans Obstructed. On April 16, Republicans blocked consideration of the Intelligence Authorization bill, which would have authorized classified amounts in fiscal 2007 for U.S. intelligence activities and agencies including the CIA, the National Security Agency, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency. [Senate Vote #130, S. 372, 4/16/07] 

Democrats Passed War Supplemental Funding Bill With Measures to Change Direction in Iraq; President Bush Vetoed the Bill. “President Bush used his veto pen for only the second time Tuesday after Congress sent him a war spending bill that would impose timelines to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq, which he called a ‘prescription for chaos.’” [NBC News, 5/1/06]  

Democrats Passed a Bill to Expand Stem Cell Research; President Bush Vetoed the Bill.
President Bush yesterday vetoed legislation to expand federally funded embryonic stem cell research, saying that scientific advances now allow researchers to pursue the potentially lifesavin