| Author | Post |
|---|
Eriu
Member
| Joined: | Wed Apr 9th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 42 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 10th, 2008 03:15 pm |
|
Children are like a bank account, you put nothing in, you get no return on your investment!!
Stop blaming the teachers and the 'system', parents need to take responsibility for the tired, ill-prepared children they send to school each day and expect teachers to educatate as well as raise.
Lets face it, at the end of the day, teachers have our kids for 9 months, we have them for a liftime!!
|
cascade
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 60 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 09:44 pm |
|
Make sure that your HOA surplus funds are parked in a safe place!
Billions in tax deposits uninsured
State, local accounts secured, so loss unlikely
Thursday, July 31, 2008 3:22 AM
By Bill Bush
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Your bank account is insured up to $100,000, but you still have a lot at stake in the event of a major failure: hundreds of billions of state and local tax dollars in accounts nationwide that are not insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp….
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/07/31/fdiclimit.ART_ART_07-31-08_A1_06AT4R7.html?sid=101
|
zippitydoda
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 246 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31st, 2008 04:13 pm |
|
dwig,
The education system is antiquated in many ways; the school is one of the only places that operates basically the same as it did 100 years ago. It does not have to do with personal accountability of teachers, and foxtrotlady, no political party is at fault, given that this is a institution that has been around for many, many years. There are a combination of efforts at work there. And don't talk to a statistician (me) about the AIMS test! It has little, if any, merit in showing the reality of the overall learning of these kids. I am very liberal but have a past life (years) in public education. There are associations and organizations dedicated to improving education based upon research and so forth. The biggest problem is money and education of the community/population. I hope that politicians will truly look at the situational factors and need, rather than just blaming-the current mode of response to failing schools.
blackjack, the reason many people have homes in areas they cannot afford is that they are buying larger homes in areas near schools--for their children. It is also directly linked to their education. Now that would be a reason all the bills aren't being paid.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:55 pm |
|
dwig222 wrote: MrsF wrote:
Educating children is the business I am in. We do the best we can with what we've got, but I noticed you haven't said ANYTHING that addresses parents' lack of involvement with their kids. Why is it only up to the teachers and not up to the parents? After all, it's THEIR kids. The kids are the parents' responsibility and it's their job to instill responsibility to their kids. They aren't doing that. The government decided to step in and establish NCLB.
We have discussed that the parents in today's society are different and many don't care. So that is what it is. They won't make the commitment. Too bad for the kids. Parents who don't care is a reality, but it's a dead horse.
NCLB???? What about over 6000 kids that fail the AIMS test. Why are we waiting until they are in high school to fail them if NCLB says we cannot let them fail. Most of them just give up at that point and become drop outs - is that leaving them behind?
I don't believe that teachers cannot fail a child. I am privy to the parent portal at several of my grandchildren's schools. Everything is graded by numbers and the numbers are added up at the end of the quarter. If it's below 70 it's a failure. It's just that simple.
We can give them a failing grade, but we can't do much more than that unless they are not understanding the material. Laziness is not a reason to hold a student back. If they aren't doing the work because they aren't capable, they can and should be held back. However, it's not up to me or you. Teachers can offer input and suggestions, but parents and admin can veto it and then the child and next year's teacher struggle. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is as well.
We can go around and around with this for the rest of the summer, but you will never convince me that it doesn't all boil down to the fact that too many kids are being pushed through when they don't make the grade so the teacher/school/district/state will not look bad and lose funding. It's time to accept the fact that some parents will never cooperate and so you need to figure out a better way or continue the path you're on and write these kids off.
As I said, I think if we are going to have state standards, the kids should be able to master them before moving on. However, kids' fragile egos are protected more than their abilities. That means the next year, they are forced to sit through or read material they don't understand and it's because the system is letting them down. If people weren't so afraid to hurt a child's feelings in the name of doing what's best for them, they would do much better in the end. Nobody wants to stigmatize their child by letting them be the oldest in the class, so we will stigmatize them with being the "dumbest". Yeah, that's better! Then when they are bored because they don't understand the material so they act out in class, the teacher and other students get to deal with that frustration as well. It's a big cycle. I still love what I do, and I do the best I can with what we are given.
|
dwig222
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:39 pm |
|
MrsF wrote:
Educating children is the business I am in. We do the best we can with what we've got, but I noticed you haven't said ANYTHING that addresses parents' lack of involvement with their kids. Why is it only up to the teachers and not up to the parents? After all, it's THEIR kids. The kids are the parents' responsibility and it's their job to instill responsibility to their kids. They aren't doing that. The government decided to step in and establish NCLB.
We have discussed that the parents in today's society are different and many don't care. So that is what it is. They won't make the commitment. Too bad for the kids. Parents who don't care is a reality, but it's a dead horse.
NCLB???? What about over 6000 kids that fail the AIMS test. Why are we waiting until they are in high school to fail them if NCLB says we cannot let them fail. Most of them just give up at that point and become drop outs - is that leaving them behind?
I don't believe that teachers cannot fail a child. I am privy to the parent portal at several of my grandchildren's schools. Everything is graded by numbers and the numbers are added up at the end of the quarter. If it's below 70 it's a failure. It's just that simple.
We can go around and around with this for the rest of the summer, but you will never convince me that it doesn't all boil down to the fact that too many kids are being pushed through when they don't make the grade so the teacher/school/district/state will not look bad and lose funding. It's time to accept the fact that some parents will never cooperate and so you need to figure out a better way or continue the path you're on and write these kids off.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:20 pm |
|
dwig222 wrote: Well Mrs. F. it's not working so maybe you do need to do more to succeed. I know that sounds cruel, but what is the answer? These kids are going to be running our country when you decide to retire. Do you want uneducated or undereducated men and women running your country and controling the economy in your golden years. George Bush is a perfect example of what an undereducated man can do to the most powerful country in the world. You might not be able to survive on your school pension.  You may have to lower yourself to accept social security!
Educating children is the business I am in. We do the best we can with what we've got, but I noticed you haven't said ANYTHING that addresses parents' lack of involvement with their kids. Why is it only up to the teachers and not up to the parents? After all, it's THEIR kids. The kids are the parents' responsibility and it's their job to instill responsibility to their kids. They aren't doing that. The government decided to step in and establish NCLB. This causes teachers to be more accountable. I have no problem with that, but we need support in order for our accountability to mean anything. When you make us responsible, but then take away our authority, it has little effect. When we can't truly discipline kids and we can't hold them back, the kids are walking all over us and parents aren't doing much about it.
Back when corporal punishment was allowed, kids were a whole lot more mindful. I have no desire to hit children, but if it were a possibility that loomed over the kids, they just might be a bit more cooperative. Now, kids are threatening lawsuits any time a teacher looks at a kid funny. Personally, I don't take them that seriously because 9 times out of 10 they have no case, but parents teach their kids about suing, not the schools. Kids get that idea from their parents. These are the same kids that call CPS because their parents spank them or threaten to spank them. Adults have little control over kids these days and it's only going to get worse unless someone does something about it.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:12 pm |
|
BJ,
You are correct. This has nothing to do with the original topic. Sometimes, conversations morph into different ones. That happens in RL and apparently that's what has happened here.
|
dwig222
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:12 pm |
|
| Well Mrs. F. it's not working so maybe you do need to do more to succeed. I know that sounds cruel, but what is the answer? These kids are going to be running our country when you decide to retire. Do you want uneducated or undereducated men and women running your country and controling the economy in your golden years. George Bush is a perfect example of what an undereducated man can do to the most powerful country in the world. You might not be able to survive on your school pension. You may have to lower yourself to accept social security!
|
blackjack
Member
| Joined: | Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 459 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:06 pm |
|
| uh like excuse me, are any of you people behind in your hoa dues? whats that got to do with johnny in school?
|
paradise
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 52 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:06 pm |
|
foxtrotlady wrote: Maybe all those children should be given over to gay people. After all, you love them so much, I am sure that they would do a much better job at raising our children than the parents we have now...don't you think?
The problem with kids and schools today is that the government has taken away all the power from the parents. Children are taught early on that they don't have to mind their parents and it is the schools doing the teaching. When the liberals took over our educational system, that is when it began to fail.
WOW! Your view is way too skewed to be for real and what is this obsession with gay people? Possibly you'd be happier living in a small town (far from here) where they don't allow 'those people"? 
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 03:53 pm |
|
dwig222 wrote: So you just go back to the blame game? First it was the parents, now it's NCLB? What's next? You want suggestions? How about working with the slower kids while giving the others some independent work. How about working with the slower kids during your lunch hour or recess or before or after school. My grandson's teacher held a little reading class in the summer for some of her first graders who didn't progress as much as she wanted them to during the regular school year. How about some free tutoring on the weekends? How about 150% dedication to the success of these children no mater what it takes?
No, it's not the blame game. You just have to understand that there are a lot more factors involved in what we do than you may realize. Working with the slower kids while the others do independent work - What a novel idea! I'm already doing that. That is Teacher 101! Differentiated instruction and small groups are something that we have been doing for years.
Working with the slower kids during lunch hour or before or after school - another novel idea! I've been doing that for years. We even have an after school program several days a week in which several teachers' classrooms are open after school for students to have a place to do their homework and get teacher support. We can't do it every day because teachers also have meetings and committees that we must serve on, so unfortunately, the kids end up losing out because of those obligations. However, if given the choice to never have to be in a committee but to allow the kids to stay after school every day, I'd choose working with the kids every time. Unfortunately, I don't have that choice.
Free tutoring on the weekends?! Do you think teachers don't deserve to have a life?! Why shouldn't we be allowed to spend weekends with our own families or taking care of our homes?! Why should tutoring be free?
I think you don't really understand or appreciate what teachers do or contend with. Perhaps you should ask to spend a week with a teacher and see what his/her week is like. Maybe then you will understand what goes on. By the way, if you do that, know that you would have to go home with a teacher as well. When we get home, we grade papers and make lesson plans, too. When I say spend a week with a teacher, I mean 24/7 for an entire week. You think we have it so easy? I love what I do and I am happy with my students' success, but I also realize that there are many challenges and until you can understand those challenges, I don't think you have room to talk because you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
|
dwig222
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 03:37 pm |
|
So you just go back to the blame game? First it was the parents, now it's NCLB? What's next? You want suggestions? How about working with the slower kids while giving the others some independent work. How about working with the slower kids during your lunch hour or recess or before or after school. My grandson's teacher held a little reading class in the summer for some of her first graders who didn't progress as much as she wanted them to during the regular school year. How about some free tutoring on the weekends? How about 150% dedication to the success of these children no mater what it takes?
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 03:25 pm |
|
foxtrotlady wrote: Maybe all those children should be given over to gay people. After all, you love them so much, I am sure that they would do a much better job at raising our children than the parents we have now...don't you think?
I don't make blanket statements about sexual orientation and parenthood. I think there are good and bad in every batch. Some gay parents are probably excellent parents, some, not so much. Just like some straight parents are probably excellent parents, others, not so much!
The problem with kids and schools today is that the government has taken away all the power from the parents. Children are taught early on that they don't have to mind their parents and it is the schools doing the teaching. When the liberals took over our educational system, that is when it began to fail.
Care to tell me some examples of the schools telling the kids that they don't have to mind their parents because I have NEVER seen such a situation? Most teachers I know don't get involved with parental discipline with their students unless they see abuse. We aren't ALLOWED to interfere. So, please, tell me when you've seen a time where a school has ever told a child to NOT mind their parents. Tell me how it has become a case where parents are powerless, and then show me how it all comes back to the school.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 03:18 pm |
|
dwig222 wrote: MrsF wrote: dwig, I asked you a legitimate question. How should teachers pick up the slack? Sure, Gem and I went off on a joke, but I'd like to know how you think we should step it up and pick up the slack? You offered a suggestion, I'd like to know what you meant by it.
Accountability
If Johnny doesn’t study he gets an F on his test. If Johnny doesn’t do his homework he gets and F on his homework. If Johnny doesn’t do his project he gets an F, right? No! Because then Johnny will fail fifth grade and that makes the teacher look bad, the school look bad, the principal look bad, the district look bad and the state look bad. So Johnny moves on to the sixth grade and mommy and daddy are proud. The teacher escapes looking bad and oh well, maybe next year Johnny will do better.
Actually, it's Bush's NCLB policy that prevents us from holding kids back. If a kid is CAPABLE but is too lazy, we can't hold them back because repeating the grade won't be beneficial to the student. We can only hold a kid back if seeing the material again will benefit the child. We unfortunately reward laziness by moving a child on because he CAN do it, he just chooses not to. It's got nothing to do with making us look bad or not. If Johnny isn't doing his projects and homework, why aren't the parents overseeing it? Oh yeah, because they are too busy to see that their kids are doing that stuff. In the end, it still comes back to the students and their parents.
It seems so logical to me that if you do everything you can to get the student and the parents to cooperate and they don’t, then the student fails. When the student fails and is not promoted to the next grade, trust me, you will get the parents attention!!!! I would have been so embarrassed if one of my kids flunked a grade - parents talk. That would be the only wake up call I needed. I agree. Unfortunately, NCLB has changed all of that. Now there is so much red tape involved in holding a kid back that it's clear that holding kids back is hugely discouraged. I don't think holding a kid back would be a reflection of me as a teacher, personally, because I would have too many other students who are successful in my class by just doing the work and participating in class. Unfortunately, we can't hold a kid back sometimes even if the parents want it!
The best thing that ever happened to this state is the AIMS test. It really shows how little our kids are learning, as the success rate is embarrassing. Now I read they want to change it. Why? Because it’s making the teachers look bad!!! Too bad! If the teachers hadn’t pushed the kids through the lower grades to protect their reputations and if the parents had cooperated, more kids would graduate from high school. So they can learn it now or learn it later when they fail the AIMS test and face life without a high school diploma.
If you make teaching your career, you make a commitment to a child. In our society today, you just can’t count on parents like the teachers did when I raised my children. So you have to make that commitment knowing that and accepting that or don’t make that commitment at all – it’s not fair to the child. In the long run holding a child back and teaching the child and parent a lesson may be the best thing you can do for them. If the parent can afford a video game system and the $60 games, then let them send their kids to summer school or get a tutor so they can save face and not have their 12 yr old in the fifth grade.
So, in all of this, when you suggest that teachers "step in and pick up the slack", you have only suggested holding children back. Is that all we need to do? To me, that's hardly "stepping in and picking up the slack". Apparently, if you think that's all we need to do, you must also think we are doing all that we can already. Thanks for affirming that for us teachers.
Nowadays, society is so worried about kids' fragile egos that we don't want a 12 year old in the 5th grade because it's embarrassing to the kids. Personally, I think that if we are going to have standards for grade levels, the kids should be able to master those standards before moving on. If it means being in 1st grade 2 years, 2nd grade for 2 years, and 3rd grade for 2, then so be it. Why have standards if we aren't going to hold the kids to them? Grades should be skill based, not so much "age based". Sure it may be embarrassing to be held back, but it's also embarrassing to be forced in a classroom where you have no idea what's going on around you. Talk about a setup for failure! However, parents are so worried about their child's feelings that it will never happen!
|
foxtrotlady
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 9th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 56 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 02:44 pm |
|
Maybe all those children should be given over to gay people. After all, you love them so much, I am sure that they would do a much better job at raising our children than the parents we have now...don't you think?
The problem with kids and schools today is that the government has taken away all the power from the parents. Children are taught early on that they don't have to mind their parents and it is the schools doing the teaching. When the liberals took over our educational system, that is when it began to fail.
|
dwig222
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 02:37 pm |
|
MrsF wrote: dwig, I asked you a legitimate question. How should teachers pick up the slack? Sure, Gem and I went off on a joke, but I'd like to know how you think we should step it up and pick up the slack? You offered a suggestion, I'd like to know what you meant by it.
Accountability
If Johnny doesn’t study he gets an F on his test. If Johnny doesn’t do his homework he gets and F on his homework. If Johnny doesn’t do his project he gets an F, right? No! Because then Johnny will fail fifth grade and that makes the teacher look bad, the school look bad, the principal look bad, the district look bad and the state look bad. So Johnny moves on to the sixth grade and mommy and daddy are proud. The teacher escapes looking bad and oh well, maybe next year Johnny will do better.
It seems so logical to me that if you do everything you can to get the student and the parents to cooperate and they don’t, then the student fails. When the student fails and is not promoted to the next grade, trust me, you will get the parents attention!!!! I would have been so embarrassed if one of my kids flunked a grade - parents talk. That would be the only wake up call I needed.
The best thing that ever happened to this state is the AIMS test. It really shows how little our kids are learning, as the success rate is embarrassing. Now I read they want to change it. Why? Because it’s making the teachers look bad!!! Too bad! If the teachers hadn’t pushed the kids through the lower grades to protect their reputations and if the parents had cooperated, more kids would graduate from high school. So they can learn it now or learn it later when they fail the AIMS test and face life without a high school diploma.
If you make teaching your career, you make a commitment to a child. In our society today, you just can’t count on parents like the teachers did when I raised my children. So you have to make that commitment knowing that and accepting that or don’t make that commitment at all – it’s not fair to the child. In the long run holding a child back and teaching the child and parent a lesson may be the best thing you can do for them. If the parent can afford a video game system and the $60 games, then let them send their kids to summer school or get a tutor so they can save face and not have their 12 yr old in the fifth grade.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 01:03 pm |
|
| dwig, I asked you a legitimate question. How should teachers pick up the slack? Sure, Gem and I went off on a joke, but I'd like to know how you think we should step it up and pick up the slack? You offered a suggestion, I'd like to know what you meant by it.
|
zippitydoda
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 246 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:39 am |
|
| Its not MrsF's fault. Our educational system needs an all over revamp in general. I realize parents are also a problem oftentimes. I know many have so much going on with multiple jobs, foreclosures, frequent moves, etc. (at least many around here); we need to keep up! But certainly, we represent a different lifestyle and different value system in education than most in the culture nowadays.
|
dwig222
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 03:52 am |
|
MrsF wrote: good one! and maybe I can check for notes from me as well, and make sure that any punishments are followed through, and maybe I can go to their house in the morning and make sure he/she gets up on time and eats breakfast and brushes their teeth. Then maybe I can make sure he/she has everything they need before leaving for school!
Maybe I can ask them if they did their homework and then take their word for it when they respond "yes" as they sit in front of the video game their parents swore they would take from them until their grades came up or stopped being disruptive in class! Yeah!
Don't bother. Just let them fail. If their parents don't care why should you. It will just make your job that much easier.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 02:37 am |
|
good one! and maybe I can check for notes from me as well, and make sure that any punishments are followed through, and maybe I can go to their house in the morning and make sure he/she gets up on time and eats breakfast and brushes their teeth. Then maybe I can make sure he/she has everything they need before leaving for school!
Maybe I can ask them if they did their homework and then take their word for it when they respond "yes" as they sit in front of the video game their parents swore they would take from them until their grades came up or stopped being disruptive in class! Yeah!
|
GEM127
Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 02:28 am |
|
Well since you asked. Maybe you could go home with a different child each night. And then you would be sure they do their homework. 
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 02:03 am |
|
dwig222 wrote: So the blame game is your excuse for not meeting the standards we would like to see in our schools? No wonder the kids are failing. The child becomes a pawn if the parents don't cooperate and the teacher just sits back and blames the parents. Why not pick up the slack if you care about education even if it means you have go above and beyond the call of duty?
I'm just curious, what do you propose we do to pick up the slack? I certainly don't "sit back" about anything, but I'm just curious what you think we teachers ought to be doing that we aren't already.
|
GEM127
Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 01:05 am |
|
| Sorry but I have to speak. My spouse is a teacher and she has gone above and beyond the call of duty for her whole life. But MrsF is so right. You can teach these kids everything there is to teach them but if their parents refuse to help a little you are wasting your time. But it does give everyone someone to blame.
|
dwig222
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 12:52 am |
|
So the blame game is your excuse for not meeting the standards we would like to see in our schools? No wonder the kids are failing. The child becomes a pawn if the parents don't cooperate and the teacher just sits back and blames the parents. Why not pick up the slack if you care about education even if it means you have go above and beyond the call of duty?
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 12:22 am |
|
dwig222 wrote: MrsF wrote: so you think gov't progrms are a plot by DES workers to keep their jobs...then you also think crime is created by cops so they can keep their jobs...
No, but the system gives them job security because the courts keep letting them out. They don't need to create crime. The courts help them with that one. They just keep arresting the same people over and over.
you think illness is created by nurses to keep themselves employed....
Funny but true story, I once knew someone who was a Cardiac Care nurse and she said she loves to see people smoke and eat junk food because it means job security for her. I know she was speaking tongue in cheek, but I think there may have been some truth to it as well. I've seen dentists give out candy too for the same reason!
so...then.....I guess ignorance is created by teachers so they can present narrowminded viewpoints on forums about how dumb needy ppl are.
.
So why is education going down hill so fast in this country? I guess the teachers are slacking off more and more so the government will pay them more or give them smaller classses to make their jobs easier. Now I get it.
Nope, it's because parents are too busy to work with their kids, Prez Bush and his NCLB program has caused federal involvement, and kids aren't doing their homework because parents aren't there to see it. Sure, there are some bad teachers in the bunch as well, but I think most are dedicated to serving these kids. These kids aren't taught the importance of studying, grades, and success and discipline and academics aren't enforced at home.
When we are teaching children about honesty, respect, and citizenship, where are the parents in all of this? Oh yeah, they are trying to make sure the rules don't apply to them and their kids.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 12:17 am |
|
zippitydoda wrote: DES is another abbreviation for schools in the district. I have seen Dysart Education System; Dysart Elementary Schools and Dysart Elementary School...did not realize you were referring to another publicly funded institution, but now that I see it...
Oh, okay. Now I understand what you were thinking. Nah, I was talking about the gov't entity. 
|
dwig222
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 247 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 11:58 pm |
|
MrsF wrote: so you think gov't progrms are a plot by DES workers to keep their jobs...then you also think crime is created by cops so they can keep their jobs...
No, but the system gives them job security because the courts keep letting them out. They don't need to create crime. The courts help them with that one. They just keep arresting the same people over and over.
you think illness is created by nurses to keep themselves employed....
Funny but true story, I once knew someone who was a Cardiac Care nurse and she said she loves to see people smoke and eat junk food because it means job security for her. I know she was speaking tongue in cheek, but I think there may have been some truth to it as well. I've seen dentists give out candy too for the same reason!
so...then.....I guess ignorance is created by teachers so they can present narrowminded viewpoints on forums about how dumb needy ppl are.
.
So why is education going down hill so fast in this country? I guess the teachers are slacking off more and more so the government will pay them more or give them smaller classses to make their jobs easier. Now I get it.
|
zippitydoda
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 246 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 11:38 pm |
|
DES is another abbreviation for schools in the district. I have seen Dysart Education System; Dysart Elementary Schools and Dysart Elementary School...did not realize you were referring to another publicly funded institution, but now that I see it...
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 05:45 am |
|
so you think gov't progrms are a plot by DES workers to keep their jobs...then you also think crime is created by cops so they can keep their jobs...
No, but the system gives them job security because the courts keep letting them out. They don't need to create crime. The courts help them with that one. They just keep arresting the same people over and over.
you think illness is created by nurses to keep themselves employed....
Funny but true story, I once knew someone who was a Cardiac Care nurse and she said she loves to see people smoke and eat junk food because it means job security for her. I know she was speaking tongue in cheek, but I think there may have been some truth to it as well. I've seen dentists give out candy too for the same reason!
so...then.....I guess ignorance is created by teachers so they can present narrowminded viewpoints on forums about how dumb needy ppl are.
Nah, we are only allowed to teach the standards, set up by the government. That way, the people of the future are only learning what the government wants them to know. There is little room for discussion of topics not addressed and approved by the "powers that be".
By the way, I don't remember ever calling needy people dumb. That's your words, not mine. I think some people don't make proper efforts to advance themselves, but I think that speaks more to their laziness than to their abilities.
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 05:33 am |
|
zippitydoda wrote: Oh, I get it, when people don't need welfare or other assistance, all of the social workers and DES employees are out a job, so they actually WANT people to need them - it gives them job security! by MrsF.
MrsF:
What DES employees are you referring? Department of Economic Security Aren't YOU a DES PUBLIC SCHOOL (you leach, you  ) teacher??? What is a DES public school? That doesn't even make sense! I am just teasing about you being a leach...but don't you want job security? Don't you think public education is beneficial or at the very least necessary??? Educating the public is beneficial, but I actually think there should be competition in our schools by having more private education, or at least allowing parents to choose their schools based on philosophy, performance, and other factors, not just what neighborhood they are in. Perhaps then they would step up because the schools themselves would become competitive. It wouldn't just be a district thing, but an actual free choice. And please do not tell me you are serious about the homeless people comment.
I don't know, I just know that when people have a cause and are paid for it, they kind of want some people to need them or else they will have to find another line of work. What would DES do if everyone paid their child support, everyone was employed, and people weren't abusing their children, forcing CPS to step in? This entire agency would crumble, causing every one of these people to actually need their own agency to help them find a job!
|
zippitydoda
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 246 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 03:52 am |
|
Oh, I get it, when people don't need welfare or other assistance, all of the social workers and DES employees are out a job, so they actually WANT people to need them - it gives them job security! by MrsF.
MrsF:
What DES employees are you referring? Aren't YOU a DES PUBLIC SCHOOL (you leach, you ) teacher??? I am just teasing about you being a leach...but don't you want job security? Don't you think public education is beneficial or at the very least necessary??? And please do not tell me you are serious about the homeless people comment.
Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 03:55 am by zippitydoda
|
sometimes rational
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 7th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 481 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 11:26 pm |
|
GEM127 wrote: GEM--when ya tell a joke and ppl don't laff, don't blame the audiance.
I guess I won't try out for last comic standing.  
LOL--now THAT made me laff!
|
sometimes rational
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 7th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 481 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 11:25 pm |
|
MrsF wrote: sometimes rational wrote: MrsF wrote: SR,
Not that you were addressing me, but I want to know what you mean by digging into one's purse so that everyone can do well. What programs are you referring to?
I don't see what's confusing but digging is metaphoric for paying more...so ppl can get assistance, if needed, to become better educated, retrained, childcare, receive healthcare, assurance that Soc. Sec. will be there...all the things libertarians oppose...
SR, did you really think I didn't know what you meant by digging? Thanks for the unnecessary, condescending explanation, but I was actually asking specifically for which programs you were talking about, which you finally came around to answering, thank you.
Yeah, I am opposed to giving people free money. This country is the land of opportunity. People have an opportunity to pull themselves up and do well. There are grants, scholarships, and other supports for helping people get by. People appreciate what they have best when they have to earn it on their own. Look at kids who are given cars at age 16. Too many kids in that position drive their cars hard or get into accidents. Yet the kid who has to work to earn the money for their car will cherish it much more so because he/she knows what it takes to get it.
Too many people have their hand out to the government and expect Uncle Sam to bail them out every time. Why are you so bent on public funding of programs rather than see people succeed or fail on their own merits? Why do you think people can't function without federal or state programs?
Oh, I get it, when people don't need welfare or other assistance, all of the social workers and DES employees are out a job, so they actually WANT people to need them - it gives them job security!
If nobody is homeless any more, what will happen to those who are advocates for the homeless? Where will they direct their passion? If suddenly everyone wanted their children and took care of them like they ought to, where would the social workers go? If everyone was environmentally conscious, what would the tree huggers do? These agencies DEPEND on these problems NOT being solved because it gives them a sense of purpose.
So you asked me what I meant by digging, and i explained what i meant by digging...so if you didn't need to know, you shouldn't have asked....someone took her grumpy pill twice today....so you think gov't progrms are a plot by DES workers to keep their jobs...then you also think crime is created by cops so they can keep their jobs...you think illness is created by nurses to keep themselves employed....so...then.....I guess ignorance is created by teachers so they can present narrowminded viewpoints on forums about how dumb needy ppl are.
Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 03:17 am by sometimes rational
|
GEM127
Member
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 10:51 pm |
|
GEM--when ya tell a joke and ppl don't laff, don't blame the audiance.
I guess I won't try out for last comic standing.
|
zippitydoda
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 246 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 10:07 pm |
|
Also, I don't feel I am protecting "the down-trodden", just anyone at all. Certainly, I look to help myself and others like me, as a Democrat, even you lower to middle class Republicans. You think I care to see big-time businesses getting breaks while the average person cannot afford a home in many areas? To me, that is what Republicans like to see.
|
zippitydoda
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 246 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 09:48 pm |
|
razenkn wrote:
Democrats continue to pursue the "class warfare" and I have to say, I just don't get it. They keep saying that the "middle class" is disappearing, well you know why that is? They are moving on up to the "upper class"
Raz, I think you fail to understand what the "war on the middle class" really is. It is referring to the almighty dollar not going as far as it used to, even with the adjustment for basic inflation. Adjusted for inflation, the average wage from 1973 adjusts to around $39,000/year now--so it sounds pretty "average" right? Well, the costs for basics have also increased--beyond just inflation for many items. With the different "necessities" we have--and they are truly necessity, such as cars, insurances, homes, and college tuition, the middle class is paying a higher percentage toward those things than they were even 10--20 years ago. College costs have more than doubled in 10 years, cars cost more (even inflation adjusted) than they did 20 years ago, etc. It goes on and on. But big business is raking it in...You cannot tell me that teachers, police officers, or secretaries, etc. have now pulled their way to upper class on their $30,000 yearly salaries (most carefully constructed with contracts to make sure no overtime is ever paid for all the extra effort they put in).
But we certainly cannot always afford to buy homes, cars to fit the car seats in properly, the gas to drive to work, insurances for health and life and car, the food that is rapidly increasing in price, and so forth. Not to mention homes in a decent neighborhood. No, we have not all moved up to upper class; really, most of us are being squeezed out. Have you been reading the newspapers? Have you seen the foreclosure rates? Certainly you do not believe these people ever had the incomes for long-term affordability of their homes! Mortgage companies were, for lack of a better term, "laying them in the weeds". Upper class, as defined by most to be "wealthy", earn at least $250,000 year, according to the government. Certainly, most of us earn well below that. In fact, many teachers in the first half of their careers could well earn near the poverty line if they have a family of four. And to earn more money or get a promotion in many of these jobs, you need more education. Which costs you more money to get.
Of course, the middle class is also expected to shoulder a huge burden in taxes and other costs, but really it is all just part of the warfare you says you can't see.
Last edited on Mon Jul 28th, 2008 09:56 pm by zippitydoda
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 07:46 pm |
|
sometimes rational wrote: MrsF wrote: SR,
Not that you were addressing me, but I want to know what you mean by digging into one's purse so that everyone can do well. What programs are you referring to?
I don't see what's confusing but digging is metaphoric for paying more...so ppl can get assistance, if needed, to become better educated, retrained, childcare, receive healthcare, assurance that Soc. Sec. will be there...all the things libertarians oppose...
SR, did you really think I didn't know what you meant by digging? Thanks for the unnecessary, condescending explanation, but I was actually asking specifically for which programs you were talking about, which you finally came around to answering, thank you.
Yeah, I am opposed to giving people free money. This country is the land of opportunity. People have an opportunity to pull themselves up and do well. There are grants, scholarships, and other supports for helping people get by. People appreciate what they have best when they have to earn it on their own. Look at kids who are given cars at age 16. Too many kids in that position drive their cars hard or get into accidents. Yet the kid who has to work to earn the money for their car will cherish it much more so because he/she knows what it takes to get it.
Too many people have their hand out to the government and expect Uncle Sam to bail them out every time. Why are you so bent on public funding of programs rather than see people succeed or fail on their own merits? Why do you think people can't function without federal or state programs?
Oh, I get it, when people don't need welfare or other assistance, all of the social workers and DES employees are out a job, so they actually WANT people to need them - it gives them job security!
If nobody is homeless any more, what will happen to those who are advocates for the homeless? Where will they direct their passion? If suddenly everyone wanted their children and took care of them like they ought to, where would the social workers go? If everyone was environmentally conscious, what would the tree huggers do? These agencies DEPEND on these problems NOT being solved because it gives them a sense of purpose.
|
foxtrotlady
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 9th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 56 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 07:05 pm |
|
sometimes rational wrote: MrsF wrote: SR,
Not that you were addressing me, but I want to know what you mean by digging into one's purse so that everyone can do well. What programs are you referring to?
I don't see what's confusing but digging is metaphoric for paying more...so ppl can get assistance, if needed, to become better educated, retrained, childcare, receive healthcare, assurance that Soc. Sec. will be there...all the things libertarians oppose...
This is commonly known as redistribution of wealth...they can't do it on their own, so the rest of us should support them...sorry, but we studied and worked hard for what we have. Go get your own, every person in this country has the same opportunities if they are just willing to get up off their a$$ and work for it.Last edited on Mon Jul 28th, 2008 07:06 pm by foxtrotlady
|
sometimes rational
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 7th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 481 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 06:15 pm |
|
MrsF wrote: SR,
Not that you were addressing me, but I want to know what you mean by digging into one's purse so that everyone can do well. What programs are you referring to?
I don't see what's confusing but digging is metaphoric for paying more...so ppl can get assistance, if needed, to become better educated, retrained, childcare, receive healthcare, assurance that Soc. Sec. will be there...all the things libertarians oppose...
|
sometimes rational
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 7th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 481 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 06:12 pm |
|
GEM127 wrote: SR are you getting as paranoid as RAZ. It was a JOKE you know what they are don't you. Unbelievable GEM--when ya tell a joke and ppl don't laff, don't blame the audiance.
|
GEM127
Member
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 01:57 pm |
|
| SR are you getting as paranoid as RAZ. It was a JOKE you know what they are don't you. Unbelievable
|
MrsF
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 30th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 05:21 am |
|
SR,
Not that you were addressing me, but I want to know what you mean by digging into one's purse so that everyone can do well. What programs are you referring to?
|
sometimes rational
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 7th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 481 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 05:19 am |
|
razenkn wrote:
People who have worked themselves into a position where they can play golf for "work" I say GOD BLESS them. What is so evil about that? When people do well financially, when did that become EVIL?? Again, if not for those who do well, the not so do well have nobody to get a job from. I personally want EVERYONE to do well so it is no longer an issue. What greater gift for America than to have only an upper class?? There is no shame in being "upper class" that only means that you took advantage of the freedom of America to follow your dream. WOW, what a concept!!!
wow!!! so glad you ha | | |