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clarz007
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 06:13 pm |
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I recently bought/read the book: Lies my Teacher Told Me by James Loewen
I highly recommend it.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 04:29 pm |
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Social studies, history, government, citizenship -- these all need to be taught to our kids in an unbiased atmosphere. Not aimed towards this direction or that. I supposed you could throw different cultures in the mix too. I wish in people's homes and kids' schools that the facts, and only the facts, were brought to our children's ears and then let them make their own determinations about what they've learned through their experiences. Yes, they will need guidance to try and work their way through the vast amount of information, but they also don't need to be pushed into one way of thinking so that they become impossible to reason with later on in life.
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clarz007
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 03:11 pm |
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| Students are not the only ones who can't pass a U.S. history or citizenship test. Try some of those questions on adults. They can't answer them either. Why?? Because education is devalued in this country. Education begins at home. Reading begins at home. History begins at home...and respect begins at home. When parents begin to take responsibility, when parents begin to actually PARENT, when parents start to turn off the TV, computer and video games--THEN we may have a fighting chance to educate our children. Until then it's a crap shoot. Arizona is the poster child for ignorance. Our priorities are absurd.
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Craig
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 03:14 am |
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But bringing the information forward that they cant pass history and civics and asking the legislature do something about it kinda goes along with what your saying doesnt it? Im thinking they agree with you.
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conspiracytheory
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 03:11 am |
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| I want to see the real and complete citizenship test not just selected questions. And if students cannot pass this it is because the AIMS test does not test history, government etc. All schools focus on is reading writing and math. Schools, especially at the elementary level do not focus on social studies, they don't have time because if it isn't on AIMS its not important, which I totally disagree with but thats another argument. So for me this information is flawed. The Goldwater institute is just using their data but NOT addressing the entire issue. One of the real purposes of public education was always to teach students about our history and how to be good citizens, something public education is not really able or perhaps willing to do at this point.
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Craig
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 02:59 am |
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So dumb kids are ok with you as long as we give them lots of frivolous amenities at school that cost millions of taxpayer money? Or you dont believe them?
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conspiracytheory
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 02:33 am |
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Who gives a rats pattootie what the Goldwater Institute thinks? Lisa Graham Keegan, The woman who gave us the AIMS test works for them. e all know what that is worth
Shileds up, fazers on stun
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Craig
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 01:57 am |
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| http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/3238
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Ms. Boots
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 08:51 pm |
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conspiracytheory wrote: Ms. Boots wrote: conspiracytheory wrote: Just so you know the income tax and other ideas, such as the federal reserve and so forth came out of the Populist/Progressive movement wich was in large part a REPUBLICAN idea embraced by none other than Teddy Roosevelt and William Howard Taft. The income tax and Federal reserve however, did not become law until the Wilson Presidency.
Hate the income tax? you bet I do, thats why we need to support the fair tax, this will eliminate the need for the IRS, reduce government beauracracy and give people MORE of their money. Check out http://www.fairtax.org
And I AM A LIBERAL
I don't see how it's fair at all except to the wealthy. Middle and lower income people are forced to pay sales tax for essentials of living. The wealthy can more easily afford to pay that tax on a shopping basket of items than the lower income groups. The difference is that the wealthy can avoid paying 'tax' under your plan by deferring purchases of big ticket items...maybe they will forego the purchase of a new BMW...the guy who is driving a bus, when his '94 Ford breaks down, still needs to replace it. I'm curious why you "hate" the income tax? Liberal's don't agree on everything, as you know since you say you are one, but I wonder if you did any digging into who is really behind this fairtax group, politically speaking.
There is bipartisan support for the fairtax, as far as I know. Also everyone gets a rebate up to the poverty level. They do this in Canada as well. I should clarify, I dont totally hate the income tax but I think there are better ways to generate the revenue. With the fair tax we will be able to fund social security, medicare and just about everything that we pay separate taxes on. I have done a lot of research on the fair tax and its power is growing. I believe in paying taxes absolutely I just think that the fair tax is a better way. It is not a VAT tax as they have in Europe or other places. If you know something about the fairtax that I do not or have not found out please share it with me. knowledge is power. And unlike some on here Ms. Boots I do love you! Thank you, and I love you, too. Well, not a passionate intense love, just more of a fondness fist bumping kind of love. I think it was important that you and I set boundries. That being accomplished, I'll look into the fair tax thing and keep an open mind....being cynical about 'grass roots' really originating from corporate offices, I will try to figure out the origin of the fair tax group...I didn't see a real explanation of that on their website. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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conspiracytheory
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 06:57 pm |
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Ms. Boots wrote: conspiracytheory wrote: Just so you know the income tax and other ideas, such as the federal reserve and so forth came out of the Populist/Progressive movement wich was in large part a REPUBLICAN idea embraced by none other than Teddy Roosevelt and William Howard Taft. The income tax and Federal reserve however, did not become law until the Wilson Presidency.
Hate the income tax? you bet I do, thats why we need to support the fair tax, this will eliminate the need for the IRS, reduce government beauracracy and give people MORE of their money. Check out http://www.fairtax.org
And I AM A LIBERAL
I don't see how it's fair at all except to the wealthy. Middle and lower income people are forced to pay sales tax for essentials of living. The wealthy can more easily afford to pay that tax on a shopping basket of items than the lower income groups. The difference is that the wealthy can avoid paying 'tax' under your plan by deferring purchases of big ticket items...maybe they will forego the purchase of a new BMW...the guy who is driving a bus, when his '94 Ford breaks down, still needs to replace it. I'm curious why you "hate" the income tax? Liberal's don't agree on everything, as you know since you say you are one, but I wonder if you did any digging into who is really behind this fairtax group, politically speaking.
There is bipartisan support for the fairtax, as far as I know. Also everyone gets a rebate up to the poverty level. They do this in Canada as well. I should clarify, I dont totally hate the income tax but I think there are better ways to generate the revenue. With the fair tax we will be able to fund social security, medicare and just about everything that we pay separate taxes on. I have done a lot of research on the fair tax and its power is growing. I believe in paying taxes absolutely I just think that the fair tax is a better way. It is not a VAT tax as they have in Europe or other places. If you know something about the fairtax that I do not or have not found out please share it with me. knowledge is power. And unlike some on here Ms. Boots I do love you!
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Ms. Boots
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 06:41 pm |
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conspiracytheory wrote: Just so you know the income tax and other ideas, such as the federal reserve and so forth came out of the Populist/Progressive movement wich was in large part a REPUBLICAN idea embraced by none other than Teddy Roosevelt and William Howard Taft. The income tax and Federal reserve however, did not become law until the Wilson Presidency.
Hate the income tax? you bet I do, thats why we need to support the fair tax, this will eliminate the need for the IRS, reduce government beauracracy and give people MORE of their money. Check out http://www.fairtax.org
And I AM A LIBERAL
I don't see how it's fair at all except to the wealthy. Middle and lower income people are forced to pay sales tax for essentials of living. The wealthy can more easily afford to pay that tax on a shopping basket of items than the lower income groups. The difference is that the wealthy can avoid paying 'tax' under your plan by deferring purchases of big ticket items...maybe they will forego the purchase of a new BMW...the guy who is driving a bus, when his '94 Ford breaks down, still needs to replace it. I'm curious why you "hate" the income tax? Liberal's don't agree on everything, as you know since you say you are one, but I wonder if you did any digging into who is really behind this fairtax group, politically speaking.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 05:42 pm |
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| I also like the fair tax, because those that can afford to purchase expensive cars and things will be paying additional tax for them. I also like that we would save billions of dollars that we currently spend on the IRS. In 2005 it cost $9.7 billion and the budget for 2008 was $11.6 billion.
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 05:31 pm |
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A national sales tax is very fair. Everyone would contribute because we are all consumers. Illegal aliens would be paying, impoverished would be paying, and wealthy would be paying. With a sales tax rate, it's an across the board tax that doesn't differentiate because of income. Payroll deductions would be a thing of the past and we could control how much we pay based on our consumption. Heck, it might even force people to save some of their money, which is also a good idea!
The only thing that might change is that bartering and trading would increase, or underground markets and garage sales would increase. However, if money is raised on the initial purchase of those items, those items wouldn't be double-taxed when resold, which would also be unfair.
Also, what would happen if items are purchased on the Indian Reservations? I don't think sales taxes are paid there, so what would prevent people from buying and selling in those areas? Some rules would have to be established with regard to that as well.
If people were free to determine how much money they pay to the government and are also free to decide what happens with their increased take-home pay, perhaps people would have more to contribute to charity organizations.
I like a fair tax, always have. Everyone pays.
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conspiracytheory
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 05:12 pm |
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Just so you know the income tax and other ideas, such as the federal reserve and so forth came out of the Populist/Progressive movement wich was in large part a REPUBLICAN idea embraced by none other than Teddy Roosevelt and William Howard Taft. The income tax and Federal reserve however, did not become law until the Wilson Presidency.
Hate the income tax? you bet I do, thats why we need to support the fair tax, this will eliminate the need for the IRS, reduce government beauracracy and give people MORE of their money. Check out http://www.fairtax.org
And I AM A LIBERAL
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:32 pm |
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In case anyone wonders what Thomas Jefferson wanted for this country, here is a quote from his first inaugural address Wednesday, March 4 1801:
—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities.
As you can see, Jefferson was opposed to taxing peoples' incomes. It worked for a really, really long time.
According to the History of the Income Tax in our almanac, the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.
http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/federal-income-tax.html
So, aside from a few short stints in our history, our government was not charging income taxes until 1913. They had to amend the Constitution in order to do so, because it was deemed unconstitutional to tax peoples' wages. Interesting...the government wants, so the government takes. How many federal programs were created AFTER 1913, when the government created itself a basically unlimited supply of cash to "take care of" different things?
Read more interesting facts about income taxes at this link:
http://www.answers.com/topic/federal-income-tax-of-1913
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:19 pm |
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Clarz, I think that's great. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I remember you are a schoolteacher as well. I'm not surprised that you are so generous. Oftentimes, schoolteachers are very giving. I'm glad you put your money where your mouth is. I am curious if others who fall into the "liberal" camp are as giving. I doubt it though.
Thank you for your answer. You should be proud of your contributions to society! I bet, however, if the government came in and "took" funds or "forced" you to serve time in these causes, your zeal to help would diminish. Am I right? It feels good to SERVE, not SLAVE.
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clarz007
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:10 pm |
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MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I would be happy to answer that, Mrs. F. We are very active in our church and write a fairly generous monthly check. WE also support our church's various mission projects. We support most well known organizations for cancer, ALS, Salvation Army, veterans, police/fire associations, etc. WE give annually to United Way. I have chaired several fund raisers--most recently a toy drive for Honduran children. Over 300 toys were sent. I am a volunteer at the library. In past years I have volunteered at Red Cross, nursing and retirement homes. My philosophy is this: volunteering is the rent we pay for living. My parents believed in giving back or paying forward which is what our family has tried to do. Our son was in the Peace Corp and is now an medical interpreter so he has volunteered many hours to non-profit organizations. As you can tell we are enthusiastic supporters of various causes and hope to remain so.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 02:40 pm |
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Ms. Boots wrote: cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: Ms. Boots wrote: cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I'm posting mine, because I am very proud to be able to give back to my community, maybe if the majority of those that can did, our country would be better off. And by the way, it is not a political thing, it is personal - I guess it has a lot to do on how you were raised. Both my parents were very charitable both with their time and money. just hope that they feel that I am following admirably in their footsteps.
I volunteer at the hospital and one of the hospice organization.
I give to a number of charities each year a few of them are - Children's Cancer Research Fund (one I would suggest to others, they do great work), March of Dimes, Veterans, Goodwill, 4 Paws. There are some that are not yearly, but when needed like the Katrina Relief Fund, etc.
I think MF meant have meant donations in excess of a dollar but I'm not sure.
That's not nice, Big Bootie. Maybe you will feel better if you have more ice cream...however, maybe that's why you have that Big Bootie in the first place!
Please don't be so hard on Boots, not everyone gives anything more than their tax dollars to those in need!
That is so true....and they tend to be conservatives. Well then you must be a conservative in your thinking, because your words spoke pretty loud - you don't mind paying taxes, but don't seem to volunteer or donate to charitable organizations. I guess it is all in the way we were taught by our parents - mine were very giving in both their time and money to those in need. Sorry all parents couldn't be like them.
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Ms. Boots
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 05:56 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: Ms. Boots wrote: cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I'm posting mine, because I am very proud to be able to give back to my community, maybe if the majority of those that can did, our country would be better off. And by the way, it is not a political thing, it is personal - I guess it has a lot to do on how you were raised. Both my parents were very charitable both with their time and money. just hope that they feel that I am following admirably in their footsteps.
I volunteer at the hospital and one of the hospice organization.
I give to a number of charities each year a few of them are - Children's Cancer Research Fund (one I would suggest to others, they do great work), March of Dimes, Veterans, Goodwill, 4 Paws. There are some that are not yearly, but when needed like the Katrina Relief Fund, etc.
I think MF meant have meant donations in excess of a dollar but I'm not sure.
That's not nice, Big Bootie. Maybe you will feel better if you have more ice cream...however, maybe that's why you have that Big Bootie in the first place!
Please don't be so hard on Boots, not everyone gives anything more than their tax dollars to those in need!
That is so true....and they tend to be conservatives.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:53 am |
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MrsF wrote: Ms. Boots wrote: cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I'm posting mine, because I am very proud to be able to give back to my community, maybe if the majority of those that can did, our country would be better off. And by the way, it is not a political thing, it is personal - I guess it has a lot to do on how you were raised. Both my parents were very charitable both with their time and money. just hope that they feel that I am following admirably in their footsteps.
I volunteer at the hospital and one of the hospice organization.
I give to a number of charities each year a few of them are - Children's Cancer Research Fund (one I would suggest to others, they do great work), March of Dimes, Veterans, Goodwill, 4 Paws. There are some that are not yearly, but when needed like the Katrina Relief Fund, etc.
I think MF meant have meant donations in excess of a dollar but I'm not sure.
That's not nice, Big Bootie. Maybe you will feel better if you have more ice cream...however, maybe that's why you have that Big Bootie in the first place!
Please don't be so hard on Boots, not everyone gives anything more than their tax dollars to those in need!
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BigSurprize
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:51 am |
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MrsF wrote: Ms. Boots wrote: cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I'm posting mine, because I am very proud to be able to give back to my community, maybe if the majority of those that can did, our country would be better off. And by the way, it is not a political thing, it is personal - I guess it has a lot to do on how you were raised. Both my parents were very charitable both with their time and money. just hope that they feel that I am following admirably in their footsteps.
I volunteer at the hospital and one of the hospice organization.
I give to a number of charities each year a few of them are - Children's Cancer Research Fund (one I would suggest to others, they do great work), March of Dimes, Veterans, Goodwill, 4 Paws. There are some that are not yearly, but when needed like the Katrina Relief Fund, etc.
I think MF meant have meant donations in excess of a dollar but I'm not sure.
That's not nice, Big Bootie. Maybe you will feel better if you have more ice cream...however, maybe that's why you have that Big Bootie in the first place!
Somebody's not spending enough time in the pool...what up slacker? 
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:44 am |
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Ms. Boots wrote: cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I'm posting mine, because I am very proud to be able to give back to my community, maybe if the majority of those that can did, our country would be better off. And by the way, it is not a political thing, it is personal - I guess it has a lot to do on how you were raised. Both my parents were very charitable both with their time and money. just hope that they feel that I am following admirably in their footsteps.
I volunteer at the hospital and one of the hospice organization.
I give to a number of charities each year a few of them are - Children's Cancer Research Fund (one I would suggest to others, they do great work), March of Dimes, Veterans, Goodwill, 4 Paws. There are some that are not yearly, but when needed like the Katrina Relief Fund, etc.
I think MF meant have meant donations in excess of a dollar but I'm not sure.
That's not nice, Big Bootie. Maybe you will feel better if you have more ice cream...however, maybe that's why you have that Big Bootie in the first place!
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:43 am |
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Ms. Boots wrote: MrsF wrote: Ms. Boots wrote: Craig wrote: Now Mrs.F, you know as well as anyone if you start bragging about your charitable work and contributions then it is no longer about doing good but it becomes about the person . I think the bible refers to it as not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I think it would be rather hypocritical of me especially to show you my list because i have spent a considerable amount of time criticizing churches for making a show of their charitable works.
You probably noticed MF didn't offer up anything like what she's requesting...consistant with the take, but don't give mentality.
You are addressing Craig to criticize me, but you seem to have missed...Craig wasn't criticizing me, not for offering up my services or for any other reason. I told you what I did, now it's your turn. I don't see where you told us anything....I notice your comrades have refused to play with ya.
I did, but I took it down. I explained it before. Anyway, my comrades and I (and several others) have spoken about it already. All is good.
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Ms. Boots
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:37 am |
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cindisue_g wrote: MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I'm posting mine, because I am very proud to be able to give back to my community, maybe if the majority of those that can did, our country would be better off. And by the way, it is not a political thing, it is personal - I guess it has a lot to do on how you were raised. Both my parents were very charitable both with their time and money. just hope that they feel that I am following admirably in their footsteps.
I volunteer at the hospital and one of the hospice organization.
I give to a number of charities each year a few of them are - Children's Cancer Research Fund (one I would suggest to others, they do great work), March of Dimes, Veterans, Goodwill, 4 Paws. There are some that are not yearly, but when needed like the Katrina Relief Fund, etc.
I think MF meant have meant donations in excess of a dollar but I'm not sure.
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Ms. Boots
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:36 am |
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MrsF wrote: Ms. Boots wrote: Craig wrote: Now Mrs.F, you know as well as anyone if you start bragging about your charitable work and contributions then it is no longer about doing good but it becomes about the person . I think the bible refers to it as not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I think it would be rather hypocritical of me especially to show you my list because i have spent a considerable amount of time criticizing churches for making a show of their charitable works.
You probably noticed MF didn't offer up anything like what she's requesting...consistant with the take, but don't give mentality.
You are addressing Craig to criticize me, but you seem to have missed...Craig wasn't criticizing me, not for offering up my services or for any other reason. I told you what I did, now it's your turn. I don't see where you told us anything....I notice your comrades have refused to play with ya.
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cindisue_g
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 02:43 am |
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MrsF wrote: A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
I'm posting mine, because I am very proud to be able to give back to my community, maybe if the majority of those that can did, our country would be better off. And by the way, it is not a political thing, it is personal - I guess it has a lot to do on how you were raised. Both my parents were very charitable both with their time and money. just hope that they feel that I am following admirably in their footsteps.
I volunteer at the hospital and one of the hospice organization.
I give to a number of charities each year a few of them are - Children's Cancer Research Fund (one I would suggest to others, they do great work), March of Dimes, Veterans, Goodwill, 4 Paws. There are some that are not yearly, but when needed like the Katrina Relief Fund, etc.
Last edited on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 02:50 am by cindisue_g
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 02:22 am |
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| That's very true, Craig. We do have different views of how we care for our fellow humans, don't we? Thanks for the talk. I feel better now.
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Craig
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 02:18 am |
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Bottom line is when you are dealing with people who really think that forcing money out of some for the sake of others is charity then they can not comprehend what true charity is and the discussion would have been futile.
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:50 am |
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That's fine, Raz and Craig. I had posted my givings but I took them down. Not because I am ashamed or because it's untrue, but because if nobody wants to say what they do personally, why should I put myself out there?
Personally, I like to put my money where my mouth is, but if nobody else is going to participate, then that's just fine.
I think it's rotten to claim conservatives don't care about their fellow man and when we have an opportunity to show them how wrong they are, we don't. I think it's also equally rotten of them to claim conservatives don't care and then refuse to tell what they do for their fellow man as well.
Well, I don't feel I owe anyone an explanation for my actions either, but when people say we don't do enough, I know it's wrong.
It's true that we would have to use the honor system. That's the only part of my little social experiment that would lack validity. Never mind, forget I suggested it, but liberals had better stop claiming conservatives don't care. As you said, Raz, there are articles and books written on the subject. They can look it up. Thanks.
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Razenkn
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:36 am |
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MrsF wrote: Craig wrote: Now Mrs.F, you know as well as anyone if you start bragging about your charitable work and contributions then it is no longer about doing good but it becomes about the person . I think the bible refers to it as not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I think it would be rather hypocritical of me especially to show you my list because i have spent a considerable amount of time criticizing churches for making a show of their charitable works.
Craig I'm not asking for it for bragging rights. I'm asking because I want to compare liberal charitable contributions to conservative ones. If you don't want to list them, you can choose not to, but I'm not asking you to brag. Whatever acts you have done have already been recognized where it matters. I only want to see if people are putting their "money where their mouth is".
If others think that conservatives don't care about their fellow man and only liberals are capable of feeling that way, I just want to know what all people like Boots, Mamazoyd, clarz, raz, you, me, and CindiSue do for our fellow man. They are claiming we don't care. I know I do, you know you do. I just want to know what they do for their fellow man and what we do. It's not an individual "thing" it's a political "thing".
Does that change things for you?
And you would believe what they posted MrsF? LOL, ok, but I wouldn't. With all due respect MrsF, I don't feel the need to explain myself to any of the libs on here. They don't believe that Conservatives are the most giving of the American people because they don't want to believe it. But there are many stats and studies out there so if they want to go look it up, it's there, otherwise they will just have to take our word for it, but I have nothing to prove to anyone. I'm with Craig, I don't think that is anybody's business, it's between me and the Man Upstairs.
Last edited on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:36 am by Razenkn
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:30 am |
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Ms. Boots wrote: Craig wrote: Now Mrs.F, you know as well as anyone if you start bragging about your charitable work and contributions then it is no longer about doing good but it becomes about the person . I think the bible refers to it as not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I think it would be rather hypocritical of me especially to show you my list because i have spent a considerable amount of time criticizing churches for making a show of their charitable works.
You probably noticed MF didn't offer up anything like what she's requesting...consistant with the take, but don't give mentality.
You are addressing Craig to criticize me, but you seem to have missed...Craig wasn't criticizing me, not for offering up my services or for any other reason. I told you what I did, now it's your turn.
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Razenkn
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:29 am |
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Calm down there ms mama. You are losing it. I have no idea what you just said but you sound very angry. Just what we need on here, another angry lib.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:20 am |
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Razenkn wrote: Mamazoyd wrote: Oh cut the crap Raz. You were saying I was "Luci" weren't you? Now I'm Ms. Boots? Well, hell, you're the freakin' boogyman! 
And just as John McCain and Gov Brewer and Arnold all are moderate REPUBLICANS along with so, so many others, so am I. So chew on that!
Sorry ms. mama, you ain't no John McCain, Jan Brewer or Arnold. Nice try though. Anyone who backs up the most nasty rabid liberal on here and the most radical left President in our history, is none of the above. If I think you are a lot like luci and you sound like BIG Booty, it must be that "birds of a feather thing" LOL
Fine, my are now gone too. Raz, you are the nasty one.
Last edited on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:57 am by Mamazoyd
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:17 am |
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Last edited on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 01:41 am by
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 12:59 am |
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| Boots, I am happy to oblige...just waiting to see what you have to say as well. You want me to go first, fine. I'm not ashamed of what I give and do...I still noticed you haven't given what you do, though.
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Ms. Boots
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 12:57 am |
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Craig wrote: Now Mrs.F, you know as well as anyone if you start bragging about your charitable work and contributions then it is no longer about doing good but it becomes about the person . I think the bible refers to it as not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I think it would be rather hypocritical of me especially to show you my list because i have spent a considerable amount of time criticizing churches for making a show of their charitable works.
You probably noticed MF didn't offer up anything like what she's requesting...consistant with the take, but don't give mentality.
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 12:48 am |
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Craig wrote: Now Mrs.F, you know as well as anyone if you start bragging about your charitable work and contributions then it is no longer about doing good but it becomes about the person . I think the bible refers to it as not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I think it would be rather hypocritical of me especially to show you my list because i have spent a considerable amount of time criticizing churches for making a show of their charitable works.
Craig I'm not asking for it for bragging rights. I'm asking because I want to compare liberal charitable contributions to conservative ones. If you don't want to list them, you can choose not to, but I'm not asking you to brag. Whatever acts you have done have already been recognized where it matters. I only want to see if people are putting their "money where their mouth is".
If others think that conservatives don't care about their fellow man and only liberals are capable of feeling that way, I just want to know what all people like Boots, Mamazoyd, clarz, raz, you, me, and CindiSue do for our fellow man. They are claiming we don't care. I know I do, you know you do. I just want to know what they do for their fellow man and what we do. It's not an individual "thing" it's a political "thing".
Does that change things for you?
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Razenkn
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 12:35 am |
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Mamazoyd wrote: Oh cut the crap Raz. You were saying I was "Luci" weren't you? Now I'm Ms. Boots? Well, hell, you're the freakin' boogyman!
And just as John McCain and Gov Brewer and Arnold all are moderate REPUBLICANS along with so, so many others, so am I. So chew on that!
Sorry ms. mama, you ain't no John McCain, Jan Brewer or Arnold. Nice try though. Anyone who backs up the most nasty rabid liberal on here and the most radical left President in our history, is none of the above. If I think you are a lot like luci and you sound like BIG Booty, it must be that "birds of a feather thing" LOL
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Craig
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 12:33 am |
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Now Mrs.F, you know as well as anyone if you start bragging about your charitable work and contributions then it is no longer about doing good but it becomes about the person . I think the bible refers to it as not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I think it would be rather hypocritical of me especially to show you my list because i have spent a considerable amount of time criticizing churches for making a show of their charitable works.
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MrsF
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 12:13 am |
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A question for Mamazoyd, Ms. Boots, clarz, CindiSue, Raz, and Craig...
What charitable organizations to you contribute your time and/or treasures to? How much or how often do you give to these causes? Volunteering at schools and churches count, too. Come on, tell us what do you donate to or volunteer for!
Be honest...no exaggerations, but you can count anything and everything as long as it's true...
Last edited on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 12:19 am by
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Craig
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 11:34 pm |
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Mamazoyd wrote: Nah, nah, I'm not saying you are Raz, just his influence seems to be rubbing more and more. But hey, Watchman can go for it!
Well i guess ill take that as a compliment. Id rather conservative values rub off on me then valueless liberals.
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 11:31 pm |
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Okey Dokey!
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Razenkn
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 10:56 pm |
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Wooo, testy, testy. Just a small correction ms mama. I didn't say you were BIG Booty, I was merely pointing out how much the two of you had in common in your political views only one is a rabid liberal and the other clamis to be republican. Okey-Dokey??
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 10:26 pm |
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Oh cut the crap Raz. You were saying I was "Luci" weren't you? Now I'm Ms. Boots? Well, hell, you're the freakin' boogyman!
And just as John McCain and Gov Brewer and Arnold all are moderate REPUBLICANS along with so, so many others, so am I. So chew on that!
Last edited on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 10:35 pm by Mamazoyd
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Razenkn
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 10:19 pm |
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Mamazoyd wrote: Ohhh there is so much gray these days and I am glad for the other moderates, Dem's, and Inde's who see this...We all need to do our part to get this figured out and to help each other or what is going to happen to us?
Isn't it funny: The far-right conservatives want help, any help, including assistance from moderates to get them elected into office, hey moderates are okey-dokey at that point, and then wham -- the moderates aren't conservative enough to be considered Republicans. What is wrong with this picture? And the main point here is the conservatives want our help to get them into office (most always no pay) but then they don't want us to help our fellow 'mankind' when they are in financial or other trouble? Double Standard? And another point comes to mind since this is up for discussion/debate, do they want our taxes to NOT increase to help others as they feel this is more money we can donate to the party? Just mulling over thoughts here.
It's amazing how mama and BIG Booty sound so much a like, you almost can't tell when one leaves off and the other begins. And we all know BIG Booty is a rabid liberal but then you have the other calling herself a republican. Then you wonder what the confusion is? LOL
Ohhh, there is no gray in life. Only if you don't know what you believe in is there gray. But I really take exception to your statement mama that "conservatives don't want to help mankind when they are in trouble" that's just a load of PELOSI and if you really were a Republican (winky, wink) you would never say something like that. Conservatives by far contribute to those in need by a wide margin over the liberals so I think you just finally may have outed the real ms. mama. You opine too much about being a moderate, get over it, we really don't care what you want to call yourself, just be honest about it though and don't attach the name republican to it.
We don't want to pay more taxes to the FED because they are robbing us blind right now and what do we have to show for it? More Government and more corruption. Explain to us again why we need 20 CZARS with a full staff and office when we already have elected officials in place to do the same jobs?? We pay for that....why? Because this President wants a staff that answers only to him that's why and they don't have to be vetted.
Why would we want to keep funding this type of reckless and irresponsible spending?? That's not rocket science is it? No big mystery there. They misuse the tax money that is being confiscated now, why on earth would we want to give them more? I am always shocked by the apathy of liberals when it comes to the libs in Congress who blatantly waste our tax money and tell them they know better how to spend it than we do. No they don't. It's the blind leading the blind. Keep mulling it over but I think the answer is clear, crystal clear.
Last edited on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 10:21 pm by Razenkn
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 09:31 pm |
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Nah, nah, I'm not saying you are Raz, just his influence seems to be rubbing more and more. But hey, Watchman can go for it!
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Craig
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 09:28 pm |
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Lets ask watchman if i am raz, hes the smart one on here
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 09:26 pm |
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Jeesh, you are sounding more and more raz-like.
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Craig
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 09:02 pm |
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Keep mulling it over you might get it right eventually. 
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Mamazoyd
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 09:00 pm |
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Ms. Boots wrote: Craig wrote: Those are not the words of a moderate republican. One is or is not a socialist. You either believe in taking my money and giving it to someone in the interest of fairness and justice or you dont. This is not about taking and giving only to those in need, we already do that. This is about making the outcome of life equatable for all. That is wrong.
So in the world of Craig and other far right extremists, McCain, Brewer, and others who believe they are moderate Republicans, are really socialists, because the far right gets to contrive definitions. I get it now. You statement is the reason why so many moderate Republicans are leaving your party in droves. They understand everything is not not black or white...they can grasp the concept of grey, they are willing to compromise and they see that their party has been hijacked.....and, they don't like it. Ohhh there is so much gray these days and I am glad for the other moderates, Dem's, and Inde's who see this...We all need to do our part to get this figured out and to help each other or what is going to happen to us?
Isn't it funny: The far-right conservatives want help, any help, including assistance from moderates to get them elected into office, hey moderates are okey-dokey at that point, and then wham -- the moderates aren't conservative enough to be considered Republicans. What is wrong with this picture? And the main point here is the conservatives want our help to get them into office (most always no pay) but then they don't want us to help our fellow 'mankind' when they are in financial or other trouble? Double Standard? And another point comes to mind since this is up for discussion/debate, do they want our taxes to NOT increase to help others as they feel this is more money we can donate to the party? Just mulling over thoughts here.
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